March 19, 2012
I was on the phone when Trevon decided to go to the Cornerstore. It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to hard. He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn’t follow him. Then he said the man didn’t follow him again. Then he looked back and saw the man again. The man started getting closer. Then Trevon turned around and said why are you following me!! Then I heard him fall, then the phone hung up. I called back and text. No response. In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story.
Thank you,
Name Redacted
Of course the first thing that struck me was that this girl who has supposedly known Trayvon since kindergarten, talked to him daily and was “getting close” with Trayvon not once but twice spelled his name wrong. How in the hell is that possible?
The next thing that’s odd is the date and Bernie says she wrote it before giving the statement which we know was on that same day. Now we know that DeeDee knew that Sybrina was listening in on the interview, this she says is why she lied about going to the hospital but the question is why keep the letter muchless give it to Sybrina which was obviously sometime after the interview?(edit- correction/clarification. Bernie states “See attached letter Witness 8 gave…Sybrina…prior to the recorded telephone call with…Crump.” How could that be? See comment https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/the-deedee-letter/#comment-7693 -end edit.) It doesn’t make any sense. She just told her story and sometime later she feels compelled to give Sybrina this letter?
Why is it dated, signed, yet not addressed in the traditional form of “Sybrina” or “Trevons mom”, “Dear Ms. Fulton” whatever, you get the point.
Why is it so short? Why does it only address a few points? Remember this is a girl that supposedly no one really knows, wouldn’t she be a bit more descriptive as to who she is? Her relationship to Trayvon? Anything of that nature? “Hi, I’m DeeDee, you might remember me…” That sort of thing. No, just boom, straight to the point with a “Thank you”? WTF?
“In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story.”
Let’s deal with that first part; “In my mind I thought it was just a fight.” Is this supposed to be the reason why she did nothing to see if Trayvon was okay? Oh wait, I’m sorry, she did do something, she called back and sent a text, wow. So the question remains, why didn’t she do anything to see if Trayvon was okay?
“Then I found out this tragic story.” What an odd statement. She found out this tragic story? I thought she knew the story, I guess if it was George the one dead on the ground it would not have been a “tragic story”. But then what? What does this mean; “In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story.” And then boom, the end? HUH? It just ends? How about “In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story so I went to McDonalds then went and got my nails done”, seems fitting for this girls behavior of again not doing anything.
So what’s the point? The girl is full of shit, that’s the point. No one would do nothing as this girl has in this type of situation that she describes. The only thing that explains her behavior is that she heard something other than what she says she heard. More than likely that she knew Trayvon was going to go fight and probably even encouraged it.
Why no apology in the letter? “I got guilt”-DeeDee April 2, 2012
[EDIT 3:00am 3/29/2013]
Just adding some more thoughts up here from the comment section, I wanted to repeat what I said to Jordan below and add some other thoughts.
For some reason Bernie describes this as a “letter” DeeDee wrote which she gave to Sybrina. But it is clearly not a letter. Rather it is a “formal statement” as to what she heard, that is why it is short and to the point.
Also by saying she gave it to Sybrina gives the impression that it was for Sybrina, I don’t think it was for Sybrina, hence no addressee. I think it was a statement Crump told her to write and give to Sybrina to give to him.
DeeDee probably thought that’s all she had to do but somehow after giving that statement to Sybrina DeeDee ends up giving a recorded statement. Now trying to work out how all that happened in one day, a Monday by the way, and get ABC set up somewhere then go do a telephone interview and all seems impossible.
Adding this from Bernies reply in as well;
Bernie’s Response:
http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/133-state-s-response-to-defendant-s-motion-for-sanctions-against-state-attorney-s-office-for-discovery-violations
http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/response_to_sanctions.pdf
Jeralyn at Talk Left regarding Bernies response:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/3/29/74056/4011
DiwataMan 
I maintain my position that the depo is yet another lie about the lie she told about the hospital. She is NOT the originator of that lie. It is crazy to believe that. Most teenagers want to be older, not younger.
It is not difficult to figure this out unless you just want to argue.
I’m not sure what you mean. I believe that she lied about going to the hospital and that she was the one who made that lie up. She made that up to explain why she did not attend the viewing or the funeral. I believe she did not go to the viewing or the funeral because she didn’t want to face anyone because she knows the truth that Trayvon purposefully went to beat George’s ass and probably encouraged it. I believe all that because it’s consistent with her behavior of not immediately attempting to contact someone after she couldn’t get a hold of Trayvon, because it’s consistent with her later after finding out he was dead and not telling anyone that she was on the phone with Trayvon that night and what she heard until she was faced with it when Tracy called her, because it’s consistent with her not being part of “justice for Trayvon”.
I did not really mean this so sorry.
It is crazy to believe that.
We are just going to have disagree about hospital lie but if it is proven that she also volunteered her age as 16, then that will only reinforce my thoughts.
It’s crazy to believe what? Which part do you not agree with? And what did you not really mean? I don’t know if she was the one who lied about being 16 maybe that’s something her mother put her up to I don’t know but what does that have to do with what I said?
I was only saying that I did not mean this in my comment :
It is crazy to believe that.
I believe all of her statements are lies… all of them.
Do you now believe she was on the phone with Trayvon during the stated time?
I would think if that wasn’t the case O’Mara might have figured it out by now. They all talk as if it’s so, so I do but yes I would like to finally see the actual evidence one day, in June I suppose we will.
I remember reading that the defense had gotten the phone forensics info. but everything from the day of the incident was missing. I wonder if they were able to get any more info from TM’s phone from that day. Are they still in the dark and therefore can’t say much about the final DD phone call.
I wish proof was available for those who have doubts.
and the telling statement at the end of the BDLR interview when she says she feels guilty, it was one of the only times she sounded honest and authentic.
I think everyone who is supplying reasons why Witness 8 did something or didn’t do something is way off base. DeeDee is not smart enough to thing ahead on any subject, much less what trouble she is getting into by telling false stories.
This “letter” was written because someone told her to write it. Show me any other example of her voluntarily taking pen to paper for any reason whatsoever.
But why would someone tell her to write an account that hurts the case? I think it was written prior to the time the mad dash to Brandi’s house story was established.
All of her accounts have conflicting statements. I agree she is not in charge of her own actions or mind, and it is not because of her age.
Maybe she really didn’t want to get involved and this was something she hoped she could give to the police and make the matter go away, although nonetheless making Trevon out to be the innocent one.
Crump said in his affidavit that he no information to volunteer about DD’s version of events other than what was on the tape. If he did use Sybrina or Tracy as a conduit for getting a statement from DD, then he clearly lied. By the time of the affidavit, Crump must have known his credibility was in trouble, so it’s hard to me imaging that he would say this.
Nonetheless I think he secured this statement sometime before 3/19.
I agree, I think the “authority” instructing DD to write this was Crump, stinks of his endless manipulations.
Jeralyn Merritt, Talk Left, wrote a very useful summary, she states that she does not think Crump lied, but is loose with the facts. MikenotMichael made a short list of Crumps LIES ( morgue, SPD credibility etc) prior to the DD entrance. Crump is a BIG liar imo, he has zero ethics or integrity. I truly hope he is punished for the incredible damage to race relations and justice he is responsible for.
I would be surprised to learn that the W8 letter was done at the direction of Crump
According to the defense, she told them she lied because she was in other words intimidated by Sybrina. If she was willing to lie because of Sybrina, why would she write this little diddy to Sybrina?
Not sure if you’re meaning the same thing that I think, but what I think is this: She lied about the hospital, but not for the REASON she claims (Sybrina in the room). Further, I don’t think the decision to lie about it was her own.
I guess maybe I’m not explaining my theory thoroughly enough or something. She didn’t go to the viewing or funeral because she knew people would be getting to questioning her and she didn’t want to take a chance on having to answer about that night. When she was found out because of the phone records and faced with Tracy and Sybrina talking to her they wonder why she was not at the viewing and funeral so she makes up the story about being sick then in the hospital. She of course maintains this lie knowing Sybrina is listening to the Crump interview and again lies because Sybrina is at the Bernie interview. Seems quite plausible to me this was the reason she lied in both interviews and dumb as she is was capable of making it up on her own, five year old kids can do such things.
Exactly. We are on the same page.
How sure are we that there wasn’t in fact a hospital visit at some point…? Obviously not on the date claimed or for the reasons stated, but the lie is so accurately detailed that it’s hard to believe that it was completely made up out of thin air.
Dee Dee’s specific list of claimed symptoms are especially curious… blood pressure issues and an accompanying inability to urinate. These symptoms are indicative of ‘robodosing’ (getting high on cough syrup), which should sound extremely familiar to anyone familiar with Martin’s social media accounts or the questions surrounding whether the items he purchased that night were really a ‘snack’ or for a cough syrup cocktail.
We’re assuming that BDLR and Guy came clean about the lie because they had to, but it may have been a preemptive strike to prevent MOM and West from discovering that there really was a hospital visit… only it was drug related. Which could have eventually led the defense down a path to finding out that Wit 8’s possible true relationship with ‘Trevon’ was as a customer.
The Transcript that circulated of the original March 19th recording transcribed the beginning of the 7th clip to say she couldn’t pee. The transcription read as follows:
Crump: Say it in your words and say it loud and slow.
DeeDee: I was in shock. I was really in shock. 12:46 (Unintelligible) 13:00 I couldn’t pee,
that’s it.
Crump: And why couldn’t you go to his wake?
DeeDee: Because I was sick. (Unintelligible)
Crump: 13:13 And what happened? Where did you go?
DeeDee: (Unintelligible) 13:26 (Unintelligible)
Crump: So you had to spend the night in the 13:39 hospital?
DeeDee: Yeah.
Crump: And so this made you so sick that you had to go get medical assistance.
DeeDee: Yes. 13:53 It all comes down to last person talking to him. That’s not easy.
Crump: And that’s when you realized at the day of his wake that you were the last person
14:06 talking to him and it just made you physically sick?
DeeDee: Yeah.
Crump: Okay.”
After the clip was enhanced some from getting Mr. Crump’s actual recording, the 7th clip was transcribed as follows:
Crump: Say it in your words and say it loud and slow.
W8: I was in shock. I was really in shock. Hmmm, my feelings are cause I just like he didn’t do nothing. He was just gonna to get his little brother a little skittle and an Arizona iced tea, that’s it.
Crump: And, and why couldn’t you go to his wake?
W8: I was just sick. I didn’t go to school that day.
Crump: And what happened? Where did you go?
W8: I was home, Friday. Um, Friday, I was sick so I just stayed home. And then my momma came and she took me to the hospital like around like 2 something, and I was in the hospital the next day.
Crump: So you had to spend the night in the hospital?
W8: Yeah
It appears that W8 was talking about the Arizona Iced Tea not that she couldn’t pee.
Listen for yourself: http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0113/w8_interview/w8_recordingA7_red.mp3
Telling someone to say it in their words suggests to me they have been given a narrative and you’d like them to tell it back to you using their own words.
How often do you ask a person a question and remind them to say it in their own words?
I knew a guy who would start off a story by saying, “What I’m going to say now is the truth.” I would hear, ” What I going to say NOW is the truth.”
When I hear stuff like that I want to say, “As opposed to what you had said before?”
Anyway, that’s what I hear, too when Crump says things like that.
Oh BTW, “You’re welcome.” Loved this kiss, too!
Bori, if you read this. Stay away from my girl! LOL!
On page 6/10, BDLR says this letter was written prior to the interview and given to Sybrina. http://tmwarriors.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/states-response-to-ds-motion-for-sanctions-against-state-attorneys-office-for-discovery-violations-3-28-13.pdf
How does one hear a person “turn around” on the phone?
BDLR also says it’s a fact they were on the phone with each other. How did he connect this person to the phone with no subscriber information? As a juror, I’d want that.
“On page 6/10, BDLR says this…” I kind of said that didn’t I? Did the way I phrase it give the wrong impression?
…:why keep the letter muchless give it to Sybrina which was obviously sometime after the interview?”
I read that to mean she got the letter after the interview.
Bernie says Sybrina rec’d the letter prior to the interview.
Ah, yes, I see. In my mind, like deedee’s lol, I don’t think Sybrina could have been in two places at once but you are correct Bernie does state “See attached letter Witness 8 gave…Sybrina…prior to the recorded telephone call with…Crump.” Crump said Sybrina was there with him so when did she give her the letter? It was a Monday, a school day I’m sure and wasn’t Sybrina working at that time? I just don’t get it. Was it then on the evening of the 19th that DeeDee went to Sybrina’s house and talked to her, gave her the letter then DeeDee left to do the interview with Crump by phone and Sybrina went to go listen in on the other end with Crump et al.? Why didn’t she just go with Sybrina and do the interview? Or they all go to Sybrina’s house when DeeDee was there? Just bizarre.
If we found out that Dee Dee was actually in another room in the same house with the rest of them, I wouldn’t be shocked. That’s how messes up this is. Yes, very… bizarre.
Referring to your “It was a Monday, a school day I’m sure and wasn’t Sybrina working at the time?”
Diwataman, considering your own epigraph: “THERE’S A HEART IN MY CHEST, IT’S A HAPPY HEART – MY FOUR YEAR OLD SON”, Do you really think any loving mother could work less than 3 weeks after her son was shot?
Sybrina’s coworkers donated 8 months vacation time to her. She wasn’t working. Tracy tweeted he went back to work in August 2012.
Not all parents are that lucky to be able to take months of time off work. Some are loving and grieving but must return back to work days after the funeral.
IIRC her co-workers did not make that donation until around May and although there are surely those poor parents who must return to work sooner, I doubt before the funeral which must take at least a week. You are positioning with extremes, i.e. the exception rather than the norm and SF was a well paid county employee not someone at the extreme. What is clear is that her fellow workers saw fit to donate their own monies to help her pursue this cause which must speak at least something towards her person.
Finances are not always the only reason parents return to work early. Some need the routine and support of their coworkers to help them through. It’s different for everyone.
Of course everyone’s different and it takes all sorts to make a world, but I have two women friends who lost teenagers under sudden death circumstances, one in an IRA attack in N. Ireland, and the other due to a lorry crashing into them while parked, and not one was back to work within a week! Of course not to say there aren’t those that can do it, need to do it, want to do it, etc. as it takes all sorts to make a world but the anglo saxons are IMO repressed enough in their feelings without trying to bury the real grief for the loss of a child on top.
The interview was March 19th. That’s not a week later. That’s 3 weeks later. It isn’t insensitive to think she might have been at work the day of the interview. 3 weeks later is not too early to have returned to work.
My error, I meant a month and both my friends took an unpaid sabbatical or more anyway which Sybrina could probably have done with help from family and friends.
Whether it is insensitive to return to work a week after your child is violently and suddenly killed, to each his own, and depends on if you can cope emotionally and/or financially (this seems to be going in circles). But in any event it is not really relevant, because even were Sybrina the “stiff upper lip” and “the show must go on” type, which she may well be from what I have observed, and had gone back to work the very next day, without knowing her work circumstances it seems strange for someone to question “Wasn’t she at work that day” when at least in my case had it even been my dog that had been shot and killed I would have begged and borrowed to take time off to go to an interview that might throw light on the circumstance surrounding his death.
No WAY am I gonna take sides in this little debate you guys have going on. 😉 But I’ll just remind everybody of one thing, though not everyone will probably agree with me: It seems to me that if there was a primary “mother figure” in Trayvon’s life, it would have been Alicia, not Sybrina. From what I’ve heard, Trayvon lived with Sybrina only for the first 3 or so years of his life, but then lived with Alicia for most of the next 13 or so.
You’re right. Not everyone will agree with you… least of all this “everyone” who doesn’t take one person’s version as fact without evidence.
Here is an interview his Step-Mom, Alicia Martin, did in April last year.
“Do you feel left out? (Alicia Martin separated from Trayvon’s father early this year, before the shooting.)
I feel left out on everything. I raised him 15 years, and for them to shut me out, it hurts, it hurts real bad. I don’t look at the news or follow it anymore, it’s just too painful.”
http://www.tampabay.com/tb-two/blog/2012/4/25/trayvon-martins-stepmom-he-was-just-good-boy/
Yep, one of the more disgusting things about this case. The Scheme Team isn’t satisfied with just torturing George and his family, they’re even willing to do it to Alicia.
And is this THE truth, or ALICIA’s truth. Alicia may well have looked after Trayvon on visitations with his dad for 15 years from when he was a toddler and until her separation from Tracey, but that doesn’t make her Trayvon’s “primary mother figure” by a long shot, and Trayvon had Sybrina’s name tattooed, not hers.
Understandably, albeit unavoidably, Alicia probably does feel “left out”; with Trayvon gone and her relationship with Tracey over, she no longer has any tangible connection with that side of the “family”, her loneliness exacerbated further by the re-grouping of her ex partner and Sybrina to give solace and comfort each other despite their long term separation causing Alicia to feel “pushed” to the outside, more especially as the child she part nurtured is no longer alive to join them together in some way.
This interview given by Sybrina on March 15, 2012 left me with the impression she didn’t know her son very well. Her answer to “Tell us about Trayvon” was odd.
My impression is exactly the opposite; a deeply grieving mother, not yet 3 weeks after losing her son in such a horrible way, is trying her best to hold it together in order to move her search for justice forward.
gbrbsb read your poem against GZ on your blog. so why are you posting here?
Oh WOW! Yeah, we most definitely have a Scheme supporter in our midst. Kind of a shame, actually, because that “poem” is actually quite well put together. Too bad it’s full of lies, hypocrisy, and hatred.
I was not aware of any prohibition. I was reading comments relevant to the new disclosures (if only to keep some kind of balance so I assume some of you may do the same on blogs not taking your position) and I reacted without further thought about what I felt was a rather unfeeling comment by diwataman, “It was a Monday, a school day I’m sure and wasn’t Sybrina working at that time?”, considering that her son had died only 3 weeks prior and his rather beautiful and poignant epigraph “There’s a heart in my chest, it’s a happy heart – my four year old son” showed a doting parent who could have shown more empathy for a grieving mother whatever position they have on this case. But no worry, I will not post again if that is the position.
(P.S. my blog is not a blog but my personal writings, roughs, drafts, etc., but thank you for the info as it was not for any eyes other than those I chose, so I will now go and make it private should it be stumbled on again.)
Cassandra, GBRB SB is one of the professors disciples, and a hopeless romantic as you can tell by her poem. She envisions TM as a sweet kid, it has never entered her mind that perhaps TM is not what has been sold to the media her and in Great Britain. What is sad is that this lady who is having personal issues of her own, caring for her disabled kids, feels that giving money to the Professor will help, I don’t know how, get justice for TM. Living in Great Britain she is so isolated from the realities of Inner City youths, it is beyond sad. I wish her well, with her family and hope that she will never have to experience what some of us colonials experience.
thanks for the background boricuafudd
and the fair perspective about the gulf between compassion and reality.
Cassandra,
It is an issue with a lot of TM supporters, they allow their emotions guide them. To many GZ is a bully for carrying a weapon, and exercising his civic duty by trying to protect his neighborhood. They don’t allow themselves to go pass this level, if anything is contrary they would try to deflect it, ignore it or just plain claim that it is faked. Anything to stay in that comfy zone, that bubble. The funny thing is where I grew up we had a name for them, “marks”.
I don’t hear Sybrina’s voice on the tape of the March 19th interview. I wonder if Sybrina didn’t sit with W8 on her end of that call and collected the written statement just before recording began.
My theory is that this statement was all that DD was willing to say or knew. After Sybrina talked to her and likely Crump, she expounded on it and agree to the audio taping. I believe that she was coerched to provide the recording and after that she was committed.
And after reading this motion today, I believe Bernie will soon be committed.
He is in Florida, he will get an award for his zealous pursuit of Civil Rights and Justice for Trayvon Marting.
It is rather obvious that reply was not written by BDLR, but by attorney’s in Corey’s office. BDLR does not have half the brain required to post that sort of drivel.
And it is telling that the state goes on the attack and does not really respond to any of the accusations. This case is getting real interesting and I for one am glad that all the spite and rancor is coming out. It seems to me that there is no possible way that gz can be convicted. The state realizes that, or maybe not. In any case, they are playing a good game. It seems that they know they have a judge in their pocket. I would expect to see an appeal soon, and perhaps a request for another judge. It might be premature, because the judge has only demonstrated that she is an idiot when it comes to interpreting and applying the law, not that she is biased. Those sorts of things can be overturned later if necessary.
I for one don’t think that the CTH is doing gz any favors by going after MOM. I think it is obvious that the state is reading the blog and using the same information, groundless IMHO, against MOM. I sincerely doubt that MOM did anything unprofessional or corrupt. I have said that several times. In reality, gz was the only one who was not completely forthcoming about the PP money, and he paid the price for it.
BDLR has said several times that he has never accused defense counsel fo any violations, and that he holds them harmless. But someone else, higher up, is reading these blogs and putting any questionable accusations in court papers. This is getting personal, down and dirty.
My reading is that MOM is the consummate gentleman, yet he is not a fool. There may have been a mixup with the passport. He made a mistake, he is human. He apologized and had brought out everything in the open as soon as he found out any adverse information. Same deal as soon as he learned about the PP account.
I also think MOM is completely appropriate and professional in his tone and his responses. Yet he, and West, are not fools and they are going to hold the defense liable for ethical violations, especially ones which cost time and money. All stones are going to be overturned in this case and that is why it is so interesting.
To suggest that MOM should support psycho brother Robert, is just bizarre. I like this site because, so far, there has not been any overt racism on either side, even though that is an intimate part of this case. This case must be dealt with in a professional manner, without hyperbole and without acrimony. The obvious racism at other sites is degrading and detrimental to justice. And that is what we all want, right?
Racism is not afactor. There was no racism in the incident. There is plenty of racism being displayed by those involved with the Martins
I don’t consider RZ psycho. He seems like a pretty decent guy, and softspoken. He has been thrust into shark-filled spotlight and is learning on the job. He has made some mistakes but he has been a net positive. GZ needs a human voice out there articulating a defense posture. GZ cannot do it in the situation he is in.
MOM is not punching, so Robert has to jab
someone has to go extreme so that the “middle ground” shifts more to GZ’s favor
West’s arrival caused a more aggressive approach, MOM wants to continue to play the “good cop”
Maybe the venue should be changed. To Chatahoochee.
Nothing in discovery to prove this;
BDLR also says it’s a fact they were on the phone with each other.
Bernie said several things in that motion that weren’t true. Bernie is now somewhat insane, I do believe.
“Bernie is now somewhat insane, I do believe.”
He desperately wants to stick it to O’Mara. O’Mara reeks of class, Bernie hates that! The way the two men have interacted from the beginning, the nauseating compliments from Bernie to O’Mara and then enjoying the punches and kicks he gets in, hiding things, making O’Mara get it himself, etc. Bernie is loving this. Poor George, everyone’s using him to get their jollies!
This is my favorite part of the letter.
“Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn’t follow him. Then he said the man didn’t follow him again.”
She made it sound like Trayvon ( I spelled his correct, right?LOL) WANTED George to follow him.
Maybe that IS the truth.
That’s when he “skipped” away.
That is a good one. The try-vo-nits made a big deal about Bernie’s “or somewhere” as if that got DeeDee off the hook for lying about going to the hospital when she admits herself that she lied as we recently learned. So what are we to make of the use of “cause” and “wouldn’t” here? So because George was not lured the first time by Trayvon he tries another approach? Sounds like it to me.
Weird…
Comment left on Sentinel Article tonight about the letter: MichaelSF at 11:15 PM March 28, 2013
Does anyone else suspect what I do? That “letter” appears to have been dictated or written by someone other than DeeDee. I would not be surprised to find out that Crump or his staff sent DeeDee an email draft of what she should include in the “letter.”
Here is some of what I mean:
“I was on the phone when Trevon decided to go to the Cornerstore”
(“decided to go” sounds stiff and formal. IMO “decided” is not a word DeeDee would use.)
“[He] decided to walk through another complex…”
(Again, stiff, formal language. And we heard DeeDee talk, twice. Would she use a word like like “complex.”)
“He… noticed someone was following him.”
(IMO there’s no way DeeDee talks or writes in this manner, saying Trayvon “noticed someone was following him.” She might say something like “he saw some white dude following him.”)
“Then he decided to find… Then he said… Then he looked back… Then Trevon turned around… Then
I heard him fall, then the phone hung up… Then I found out this tragic story.”
(I don’t know what to make of all these “Then…” statements. This reads like a stiff, formal statement. It is as if someone was telling her what to write, she took notes, “then” hammered these bulleted points.)
In any event, this letter was not written by Trayvon’s girlfriend, so emotionally upset that she felt compelled to write Sybrina Fulton a compassionate letter as an expression of sympathy
Where is the letter in which she apologies to Sybrina for not going to the wake or funeral?
I thought that exactly. When I read the letter that last night I was so intrigued by those two sentences (the ones I commented on earlier) that I forgot to comment on what you noticed when I read her letter.
When I read “decided” “complex” “cornerstore” “tragic story” I thought that it didn’t smell right.
Instead of “decided” if she said, “thought to” and “apartment area” instead of “complex” it would have sounded more like her. No frickin’ way Trayvon said, “cornerstore”. He would have said, “7-11”. I know people who call ALL convenience stores “7-11s”. Her saying, “tragic story” is just a joke! She would have said, “Then I found out he was kilt.” (Using Brandi verbiage.)
The “then’s” definitely looks like she was taking note then using her notes verbatim.
Isn’t it odd that she mentioned shortcut, but never mentions “from the back” which she repeated often and NO mention of George in his truck.
Also she said in her letter at the end that she texted him. Didn’t she say to BLDR that she did NOT text him? Hmmm….
Also, if the phone hung up, how did she hear, “Get off, get off.”?
BLDR is an idiot for putting this letter in his response.
Cornerstore sounds like a Crumpism
It also sounds like a lie. I can’t imagine that “Trevon” would have told her he was going to the “cornerstore” when the 7-Eleven is a good half mile or more from the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and is not on or near a corner of any kind. Also, if this was DeeDee’s word, it would have been “cornersto.”
First off I agree, Bernie is an idiot. It took me awhile to understand what has always bothered me about DD’s statements, but with this one it hit me. In all her statements, the way she describes events is as if the incident happened on his way to the store, not on the way back.
“I was on the phone when Trevon decided to go to the Cornerstore. It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to hard. He started walking then noticed someone was following him.”
If I was reading this without the knowledge that he had gone to the 7-11 I would think this happened on his way to the store, not on the way back. She always ignores the whole period of him walking to the store, getting what he wanted and then leaving. Is as if she is describing a totally different event.
Then there is the allege chase, where TM appears to have been wearing cement boots, because he does not appear to be able to get away. We know GZ was on the phone so he could not be chasing TM like she describes. In this case she does not even describe a chase, she says TM noticed someone might be watching him, he lost that person, at some point later the same person appeared.
One other thing, she says she texted TM, but when BDLR asked, she was confused and said that she had not. I think I know the reason BDLR released the statement, but it just adds to the confusion.
Bori- That was exactly my thought when I read the letter. She goes right from saying that she was on the phone with TM when he decided to go to the store. Then she goes right into him going through shortcuts, and someone following him.
I still believe that DD really didn’t know TM all that well. She talked about him going home to his little brother. Brandi’s was not home, and Chad was not a brother. She said he was rushing to get back to finish watching the rest of the game. The game had not even started.
In both interviews, you can hardly understand what DD is saying, yet the letter is written in a completely differnt language, including “why are you following me.” I don’t believe that DD constructed the letter.
No mention of Mail Thingy or dripping water. Looks like something of a stmnt one would make for LEO. IMHO maybe TrayMom or TrayDad talked her into writing this and the girl thought she would be “done”. Also, why would she worrry that someone at the Wake/Funeral would question her? Supposedly no one knew she was on the phone, right? I like some others think she encouraged TM somehow on the phone to confront GZ. Now that would make sense of not going to the Wake, lol guilty concience?
Smells like a Dead Skunk. Freshly squashed by a Semi Truck on a no wind night. Whew!
I agree with Nettles’ observations.
That letter was not written by DD but it was dictated
I’m getting that feeling, too. Having teenage daughters, there is a style of writing that is very distinctive and does not vary too much. Slightly different loops and curlicues, but there is a structure that is consistent. None I’ve seen of theirs or their friends looks similar to the style in DeeDee’s letter. However, my progeny are white – not sure if there’s a particular style for female black teenagers.
Absolutly. Having read the transcript of DeeDee’s responses, there is no way she would write like this, use those words even the “then”. Bernie is an idiot for releasing this thing. Loved his “motion meltdown”. We will be watching Bernie’s real life meltdown up front and personal in Court including the arm flapping. Both Bernie and the Traybots will need a white jacket to calm down prior to being carried off.
“IMO there’s no way DeeDee talks or writes in this manner, saying Trayvon “noticed someone was following him.” She might say something like “he saw some white dude following him.”)”
Yes, I agree this is not the vernacular of someone who says “a lil bit dripping water.”
…’a lil bit dripping water’. Very good point – not exactly erudite…
Oh DD. By the way I am turning around now. Yuuuup!
Did Bernie give over a piece of evidence that the Defense didn’t have when he included it in his response? Nettles maybe you could email GZLegal to find out when they got it from the Prosecution?
I can’t find one piece of information about any letter that was received by Sybrina Fulton from W8 in evidence regardless of the time it was given to her. Since she talked to O’Steen about her conversations with her on 4/2 you think she might have mentioned it in passing. Especially if she just received it on 3/19…
He continues to dig himself deeper into a hole. He incriminated himself publicly with his admission as you saw in Sentinel article and now provides proof in writing.
Was that article a result of an actual sit down or phone interview with BLDR?
Well since the trial court has made anything to do with Mr. Crump’s work product. “Undiscoverable.” And since the whole case by the state is based on Mr. Crump’s work product. The motion should be to suppress anything related to Mr. Crump’s work product. Wonder how the trial judge would handle that one?
good one
He writes a response to a motion accusing him of violating discovery rules, hiding evidence. So what does he do to prove he’s not doing that? Why, he includes a copy of evidence he has been hiding, of course. Massive FAIL, Bernie.
The GZLegal site just released the 13th Supplemental Discovery packet and the Defense got the letter on March 15th and again on March 27th.
Click to access states_13_redacted.pdf
Explain to me again, please, why she wrote and sent this letter to Sybrina?
Bernie calls it a “letter” but it’s obviously not a “letter”, it’s a “formal statement” as to what DeeDee heard, that’s why it’s not addressed to Sybrina but it was “given” to Sybrina.
So she never apologized in writing?
I’ve been banned from CTH so I will post this here. Allow me to illustrate why sundance is a complete imbecile with his tirades about Omara’s shortcomings and wrong doings. We know Baldy reads the treehouse. All sundance is doing is feeding Baldy more ammo to fire back at the defnse! DERP!
David, while I allow an open forum I do have my limits as my blog is not a “come on over and gripe about Sundance” blog. You are free to start your own wordpress blog and write what you wish, it’s free, easy and no one is stopping you.
As to the other point it’s quite simple to understand. O’Mara put himself in a vulnerable position, for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, nefarious or not, conspiratorial or not does not matter because nothing changes that simple fact. The State, now after all this time, is openly using it against him. What is O’Mara to do? What would you do if you were George knowing that your lawyer has put himself in this vulnerable position? I would think the only logical answer would be to get another lawyer.
Anyone who paid attention when the jail calls were released would not be surprised by Bernies response today, except maybe to say it’s now being used openly so the question is was he not using it before behind closed doors? Maybe, maybe not, doesn’t matter, it doesn’t change anything, it doesn’t change the fact that O’Mara has been in this vulnerable state since the day the State listened to the jail calls themselves and heard what they heard, which I will say Sundance had nothing to do with. Bernie got O’Mara all on his own long before anyone, including Sundance, heard the jail calls. Ever since then it was just a cry out to the cosmos in hopes George would get away from O’Mara and to keep people informed.
I’m thrilled Bernie put that in his motion. If it’s true that it was being used as some kind of leverage, some kind of blackmail against MOM, then Bernie just weakened his own position considerably. If you’re blackmailing someone, the second you go public with whatever you’re holding over their head, you’re no longer a serious threat to them.
Thanks, Bernie.
The whole paypal thing is very confusing. Didn’t Bernie accuse Shellie and George of lying to the court, and MOM about the paypal account balances? Then he comes back lately and claims that MOM tried to file indigent status for GZ even though I don’t believe that paperwork was ever filed with the court. I don’t remember MOM ever saying in court that GZ was indigent. Shellie offered to get her brother in law on the phone to give the info. on the account, but no one including the judge seemed to be interested in pursuing that. The judge was also unsure if the account was under his control, meaning did he have the right to include that money in GZ’s finances. The whole thing could have been cleared up if they got Robert Jr. on the phone that day. No way would he have lied about the balance. The judge was supposed to look into the account source, but never got back to anyone on the matter. MOM went to the court a week or so later with all of the information, and submitted the collections and expenditures if I am not mistaken. The judge asked MOM to give him the reports on the account and MOM did that. The judge still threw GZ back in jail for sitting like a potted plant and not telling MOM the amount in the account. I know the judge considered GZ to be the liar, and encouraged the state to charge Shellie with perjury, which they did post haste. As much as I want to see GZ exonerated, I’m not clear on who did the lying or misleading. When Bernie asked her that day if she knew “currently” how much was in the paypal account, she said no. According to the jailhouse calls, she had already transferred money out of the account and into their bank accounts. I dunno, maybe I am missing something here.
Yeah, that whole deal was/is very confusing. I’ve read all the discussion about why MOM is largely at fault, but I’m still not sure I see it. NOT saying there’s not truth to what Sundance and others have said. I don’t believe SD ever just makes things up. But to me, it’s just that it still doesn’t make sense to me why MOM would have done anything really stupid for no real huge apparent benefit. Or I guess it would be more accurate to say I don’t think he would INTENTIONALLY do it. But if he DID do something wrong, even unintentionally, he most definitely SHOULD have come clean a long time ago… on that, I can agree completely with SD. But the only obvious bit of “underhandedness” I see in the whole thing is that Shellie and George pretty clearly AT FIRST kept the details of the total amount of money hidden from MOM. However, since they barely knew the guy, and had recently been burnt by other people, I can totally understand why they might hesitate giving their total trust to MOM… at that early stage at least.
Anyway, regardless of who was most at fault for anything, if the State HAS had something hanging over MOM’s head all this time, seems to me that’s over now. By throwing the PayPal/passport stuff out there for the world to see, Bernie has also thrown away whatever leverage he may have had over MOM. And that’s a very good thing.
Thanks, jello. You have actually explained my position to not take sides in this issue.
and what about the “doxing of the wrong dee dee?” DERP!!!!
I’m confused by the ”…walk through another complex…’ verbiage. Is she, perhaps, inserting the shortcut too early into her story? Seems to me she’s making two references to the (if I remember correctly) single shortcut event.
O’Mara has been asking for several surveillance tapes from the prosecution – one from Kohl’s, I think, one of the front part of the next complex… all potentially showing TM on his way home from 7-11. The prosecution first gave the defense blank tapes with that “cute” sense of humor they have. I’m wondering if the tapes show TM ducking into the guard’s booth (someone on CTH once posted photos – or maybe it was a link to Dman’s stuff, can’t remember), and this is their way of getting it into DeeDee’s story, now that the defense will see the tapes….?
Thanks. Perhaps I was reading too much into the word ‘complex’. I associate that term with a group of apartment buildings, not clusters of businesses, e.g., Kohl’s.
It is me does the date, aside from it not being in cursive, looks like totally different handwriting. The date look has a up and down slant, while the cursive has an obvious right tilt. The writing on the date also looks more fluid and light while the cursive is coarser, more pressure when writing.
The date appears different only because it was not written in cursive script. Examine the “a” and the “a” in tragic. They are almost identical. The date may have been added afterwards, though; which is why it is is printed.
The Cs are very similar in both cursive and block print. Date probably added later – agree with EJARRA.
I take it back, the date does looked funny, also the signature, notice how the regular script occupies the lines, but the signature is so small it does not even fill it.
Of course this is a copy. But to me it looks like some things may have been whited out. Look at the left margin, if this is notebook paper or stationary, the lines would all still be connected, unless something has been whited out. Also, if you look at the lines of the date and under, they appear to have been whited out and redrawn. JMHO
If memory serves me right, didn’t they have a problem getting W8 over to Sybrina’s house for the BDLR interview? And if so, is it possible that this letter was written by the girl in lieu of her appearing over there. It would seem that she exhibited some reluctance at speaking under oath about this?
When they located her, and transported her, the letter came along as well. Just speculating
This letter was written according to the date and BDLR on March 19th, the same day of Crump’s interview. I think she wanted this to served as her testimony, but was convinced to do an phone interview instead.
And given to Sybrina that same day before the interview as well, so says Bernie. I added a screenshot.
I guess Sybrina did talk about the case with DD, after all. No wonder that Crump was confident in having the media present.
I don’t know, technically she could have given her the written statement and not talked about it. Regardless, Crump’s statement in the ABC clip was good enough for me and I mean c’mon, what, what do people think Tracy and Sybrina are going to ask her right away, her favorite color? pfft, yeah right, of course they both talked to her about what she heard, it’s painfully obvious as that’s what everyone would do in that situation.
The insistence on Sybrina and Tracy that they did not discussed what happened, is what first made me suspicious but, this sort of seal’s it for me.
Oh they talked to her about the details, alright. You can be certain of that. That is, of course, if there were any details TO talk about. I’m still not 100% sure Dee Dee was on the phone at all during the relevant times. Actually, I haven’t totally given up the Double Dee Dee Theory. So there’s that… 😉
How is this for a theory, that written note was the script for dd2.
Don’t forget that according to Crump, Tracy had called DD the night he found her number on his phone bill. Tracy then called Crump with the explosive information according to Crump himself in his presser. I don’t remember when Nat Jac claimed that Crump’s investigator found DD, but if her statements came later, she could have tried to cover for the fact that Tracy had already talked with DD, long before any law enforcement officers or the state had spoken with her. DD says in the so-called letter that she thought it was just a fight, until she found out about the tragic story. She never discloses how or when she found out about the “tragic story” but at the time of the funeral and wake she was so sickened to hear that she talked to him last that she had to go to the hospital according to Crump, which she admitted she never did. The so-called letter brings up more questions than it answers.
I think the letter was released now in an attempt at rehabilitation of the witnesses.
I agree bori. DD has been under fire for lying, and then implicates Bernie in the depo that she did tell him about the hospital lie long ago. Sybrina has been under the microscope for saying that she never talked with DD before the interview, but it’s turning out that she likely did. Sybrina looks like an ogre when DD says that she lied about the hospital because of Sybrina. Yes, the state’s witnesses are taking some hard hits, and Bernie is losing the three hairs he had left on his head. The letter doesn’t help anything, or do anything to prove that GZ stalked TM, threw the first punch, and sure doesn’t sound like anything anyone would give to the mother of the one who was shot. No sympathy, no condolences, no emotion, no shedding light on anything. Bernie is getting very desperate, as the defense seems to be closing in on some things the prosecution needs to keep hidden. Do straight jackets come in sizes, or are they one size fits all.
I do believe they are one side fits all, since the straps are adjustable. Bernie’s blow up does indicate someone who is on the edge.
boricuafudd,
The letter was released because it had to be disclosed.
It in no way rehabilitates the witnesses although in the minds of the prosecutors it did seem to pose any problems.
correction it did NOT seem to pose any problems
I think the prosecutors see the letter as confirmation of DD’s story, before it could be corrupted by others. That the story is far from what she later told Crump or swore to, was a risk he had to take. That it had to be disclosed is a given, it is the law, but if you think that the prosecutor would have released the letter if he didn’t need to or if the Defense was unaware of its existence then you been following a difference case.
I have thought about this a bit and I believe the only reason for this letter is the date that it is posted. IMO, Crump is trying to add to his credibility, not so much W8.
I think it does the opposite in terms of Crump, this story does not match the story Crump was peddling, in fact reading this statement gives you the impression that TM was attack on the way to the store, not returning from the store.
IDK. IMO, the date is written by the same person that wrote the body of the note. The M in March and the M in mind have that same little hook.
I think she was hoping for this to suffice as a written statement so that she would have little involvement as possible.
The date just feels like an afterthought.
I am wondering if she wrote this the night she and a friend went over to Sybrina Fulton’s house. Sybrina wanted her to go to the police. The only time frame in O’Steen’s recap is sometime in March.
I certainly hope the Defense has seen the original and not this photocopy. It was done on 3 hole notebook paper, as opposed a legal pad.
I have no doubt that the intention was to use the statement as a substitute to coming forward. Here is the problem where Crump gets into trouble, his story and Tracy’s is that he found out about DD late on Sunday night. Tracy called Crump late, then the interview was done on Monday morning. There is no time for the mysterious meeting to take place between DD and Sybrina, which means either Sybrina is lying or Tracy and Crump are. But at the same time if the date is anything but that, then guess what they were obstructing justice, by not revealing an important witnesses, and not reporting it. Anyhow they look as liers conspiring to keep DD from the authorities but if it happened the same day they won’t appear as guilty.
It’s possible that DD may have mentioned the written statement in the defense depo. If that is the case, Bernie had to release it no matter what it said.
It could have been Sybrina or DD that mentioned the letter. BDLR had to release it afterwards.
Crump implies that he didn’t know anything about DD’s testimony prior to the interview. Did this statement have no connection to him (or his firm)?
I don’t imagine you’d ask someone to write a statement a few minutes before you are going to interview him or her.
This statement is important, and mysterious.
I read that she did not show up for the interview and had to be picked up.
Wasn’t it in one of the FDLE reports that she didn’t show up at the time she was supposed to and someone said they had an idea where she might have been. They went to that location and found her and brought her back to Sybrina’s. Didn’t Sybrina take her outside alone and talk with her before the interview was conducted?
Something like that, but i cannot remember where I read it.
“I read that she did not show up for the interview and had to be picked up.”
I believe that was for the April chat with Bernie, not the March 19th telephone interview with Crump.
unitron
Check out the last sentence, “Then I found out this tragic story.” Does the writing not look slightly different? I don’t mean a different person. I mean more like the whole first part was written in one shot, and then a little while later the last sentence was added. Like someone read it, thought about it, and… “Hmm, I don’t like the way that sounds, ending it with the line about a fight. I think you should add a bit more.”
Looks the same to me.Now where’s my cake?Yes I know… I owe you a cake. But I asked you the other day how the exchange process works. Lemme know and you’ll have your cake. 😉 (But Ian is still NOT happy what you did to him the other day.)
lol, I know, I couldn’t reply to that comment so I edited in the answer to your comment, I should have just wrote it to you on another comment. All you have to do is send me a picture of a cake, you can create a photo or just link one off the net, and I also would like with it a groveling message of my greatness and such, be creative or as simple as you like. You can just link the URL to the cake image of your choosing and the message and I’ll take it from there.
Alrighty then! I’ll get you something nice tomorrow. Any special flavor?
Nah, I leave it up to you, take your time, whenever you get to it. 😉
I misread your comment. I see now you said “I don’t mean a different person.” man, I hate when I do that because I get mad when people do it to me. Sorry. Yes I agree the way those two last sentences are together like that and that last one, caught my attention as well and I like what you have to say on it. It’s like she did end it with “In my mind I thought it was just a fight.” then thought about it for a while and added that odd last sentence.
I thought the stop was BEFORE “In my mind………..”
Anyway, If you look at the date, its looks a little funky to me like it is smudged and that maybe the 9 had been changed from something else
I’d like to ask her what she meant by “JUST a fight.” Did she know Trayvon to have a history of fighting (and winning), such that his getting into a fight was considered just another normal event to her, and she therefore had no reason to suspect that any ill may have befallen poor Trayvon as a result of this particular fight?
The “then” is the same as the other “thens”, the loops are the same. She wrote it. The question should be, who told her to write it?
Oops! It looks like I, like D-man, misread what you were saying. Mia culpa.
Why is this “letter” given to Fulton rather than Martin. Both are grieving parents. Does she or her family know her, are they afraid of her, are they deferential to her? Why not Mr Tracy or Attorney Crump or the governor? Why is Fulton around whenever W8 is interviewed in the early stages? Why is BDLR so heck-bent on obscuring her identity, age, background, etc. He claims it is because of doxxing, exposure, from the defense but is it really from what will happen to her if certain parties don’t get their money. This note reads to me like a mea culpa given to the boss. “…I thought it was just a fight.” implies it was usual Trevon (sp) antics so no biggie until she found out he lost the fight which is why BDLR has kept it hidden. I do not think this piece of paper was intended to be made public. I think West (more so than O’Mara as he enjoys it) has baited BDLR into loosing it and handing over incriminating evidence brought up about fighting by none other than W8 which will in some way match up with other evidence, school records or something. They have evidence but need a way to bring it up and W8 and BDLR gave it to them in a tantrum. For all I know Robert Jr is part of the plan to get them worked into a frothing tizzy and making mistakes.
“…I thought it was just a fight.” Excellent catch, boutis! I missed what that revealed when I first read it. I think “tragic story” was why.
There is nothing else that it could mean except that Trayvon fighting was commonplace! Not a big deal. He gets in fights all the time. The fact that he didn’t call back must not have been that big of a deal, either. She was not going to call the police, ’cause that is not what you do when your boy gets in a fight.
That one line will haunt her if MOM/West uses it like she meant it when she wrote it.
DD claims in the letter that she heard TM fall, and then the phone shut off. How would she know it was a fight just by hearing TM fall? What would have given her any impression that it was a fight unless TM said something to her about going after GZ because he dissed him by calling the cops and looking at him. I still contend that TM was up to something that he didn’t want anyone to know about. He couldn’t have known what all GZ may have witnessed him doing, or when GZ first saw him.
I just read this after posting the same thought above. You are completely correct – the only explanation for saying “just a fight” was that she knew Trayvon to have a history of fighting and winning, and so she wasn’t surprised or concerned for his well-being.
When I read the letter last night I thought the same thing. “I thought it was just a fight” my intellectually disabled nephew likes to play with cars while in the bathtub and makes all kinds of strange noises while doing so LOL Well, one evening he went in to take his bath/shower I heard him in there making all his usual noises and I just continued on doing what I was doing until I heard a blood curdling scream from him! I went rushing to the bathroom that he was in & tried to get to him but the door was locked (big NONO in my house) so I had to bust the door down. When I got inside there he was sitting on the floor screaming with his hands over his eyes. Apparently he wanted his tub cleaner then it already was and decided to try & clean it….with LIME-AWAY and as he squirted it against the wall it splashed back into his eyes and what I thought were his usual noises were actually him trying to get it outta his eyes WITHOUT me knowing he got into something he shouldn’t have…So thats what I think DD meant by “I thought it was just a fight” meaning she just thought he was in another one of his fights..Just my opinion 🙂
Great break down D man. I agree it is very very odd, almost like it was recently made and handed over. BDLR I think would of threw this letter in Omara’s face a bit more if he would of had it the whole time. It is almost like they know she is going to be exposed (as to what she did that night after the call and the days following) , or she already told omara what she had done. Therefore they need a excuse as to why she didn’t grieve that night or call the cops ect.. “I thought it was just a fight”. I bet Chump and his posse or maybe even BDLR recently had her make this, date it ect.., we’ll never know. I agree this looks more like a cop saying to write down what happened that night, not a normal letter a 18 year old would just randomly send to the parents of a 17year old that just got killed (Before she spoke with Chump). Again great job. Have a great day.
“In my mind I thought it was just a fight.” Why would anybody use these terminology to explain the events that just happened, unless someone liked to fight a lot. If i am talking with a friend on the phone and they got attacked by someone following them the last thing i would think it was just a fight..
This letter is fascinating. It makes me think that DD did in fact hear something, maybe the initial 10 seconds or so when Zimmerman followed TM.
____
Then I heard him fall, then the phone hung up. I called back and text. No response. In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story.
_____
Note that she infers a fight happened after the call ended. He falls and then phone hangs up. No “little push off” for example.
Very strange that BDLR included a piece of evidence relating to W8 in a response to sanctions about withholding evidence where W8 is concerned.
With all this back and forth about W8 I’m inclined to think she was on the phone and that she is the only important witness the state has.
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“I was on the phone when Trevon decided to go to the Cornerstore. It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to hard.”
So it happened on the way to the store?
Am I the only person who finds it odd that she gives a written statement on the same day that she is interviewed (3/19) and the statement seems so contradictory to what she said in the interview?
Did Crump correct her that Martin was coming back from the store? Was the statement written prior to 3/19 and the date added later?
Maybe this was to be in lieu of a recorded statement she hoped and then she could just move along. This may be where Crump got his idea to get out of one too. It didn’t work for W8 but it did for Crump.
There is actually time for it… did he make two trips to the 7-11?
Does BDLR tell us that this letter is signed using her “nickname” and not her real name?
“Witness 8 did everything she could to not be identified, including using her nickname so that she would not be subjected to what is happening to her now.”
Again this will only raise the suspicion the April 2nd interview may have been done by someone else claiming what her nickname is/was.
The State has filed their 13th Supplemental discovery and strangely it includes information which was known in March/April last year. In it we learn the defense got the hand-written letter on March 15th. The date of Sybrina’s deposition with the defense.
Click to access states_13_redacted.pdf
Too funny- the custodian of records from GZ grade school. I wonder if they will add the doctor that delivered George when he was born. Maybe he can reveal that GZ was born with horns.
Tracy Martin knew from the beginning what GZ statements were to Serino from when Serino interrogated him the night of the incident. Serino, and possibly others, like the three that pressured him into filing charges, were keeping Tracy up to date on the investigation. Everything that is in the letter could easily have been designed around GZ’s statements.
The police already knew that TM had gone to the 7-11. GZ had already said that he saw TM coming through the walk through. Obviously they knew it was raining that night. She goes right from TM deciding to go to the store, to talking about someone following him. There is nothing about the hoodie. There is nothing about running to the mail thing. There is nothing about GZ watching him from inside his vehicle. She says the man wasn’t following him, and then says TM looked back and the man was following him again. Nothing about telling him to run Trayvon, run. Nothing about TM being near his father’s house. She says that Trayvon asked why are you following me. She said to Bernie that the man asked TM what are you doin’ around here. She claims that she heard TM fall, and then the phone hung up. How does she know TM fell while she is on the phone and not there seeing what happened.
I agree with whoever said above that this is more like a written statement to the police, rather than a letter to Sybrina. There is absolutely no proof at all whatsoever of when the letter/statement was written. It looks as though the date and the thank you were added later. I would agree also that someone told her what to write and she wrote what she was told to write.
The long and the short of it is that nothing in the written statement proves anything, nothing, nada, zip, zilch. The purpose of the statement was to try to make it appear that GZ was following/stalking TM, but it falls way short of proving that. She simply says that she heard TM fall, but there is no way anyone can prove that from a phone witness. As Gilbreath said at the first hearing, they had no proof of GZ following TM, and they had no proof of who started the fight. Without proving those two items, they cannot disprove GZ’s statement that he was walking back to his truck, and that TM came up behind him and sucker punched him in the face. For someone who supposedly was on the phone all day with TM, what the Deester describes would take all of about 2 minutes or less.
In Deester’s interview with Bernie she goes into talking about him going to the store to get food and drink for his little brother. Bernie asks her if she was on the phone with him when he was on the way to the store, and she says yes. She says that the phone was actin’ up and she got disconnected a few times and had to call TM back. She says something about hurrying back to watch the game with his little brother.
In one of the defense motions they claimed that they have been trying to determine who found DD, and when. They claim that the state has refused to answer that question. Is this letter supposed to prove that DD came forward on her own, and contacted Sybrina all by her little old self? Crump said that Tracy found her phone number on his bill and called her. He then called Crump late at night to tell him of his find. Nat Jac says that it was one of Crump’s investigators that found her through the phone info. To date there is no reasonable or rational info. about how DD came about, and when.
When the enemy is having a total and complete meltdown, let him have at it. The defense is getting closer and closer to the truth, they are uncovering things that are proving that this has been a malicious prosecution. By the time the defense gets done with this I suspect Bernie will be in a straight jacket. I promise the Deester is going to do a disappearing act sooner rather than later.
I agree that the date and the ‘thank you’ look like they were added later. They are both bigger but the same size as the rest of the statement.
I agree. March is printed not written cursive on the letter, whereas the rest is cursive. Also I hope the defense gets the original because the 9 appears to have been edited in the date.
And BDLR says W8 “gave” to Sybrina.
If the defense received this letter after the deposition, I can’t imagine the judge (even this one) not allowing a new deposition.
According to the State’s 13th Supplemental Discovery, the defense got a copy of this letter on March 15th. The date of Sybrina’s deposition. Did it get discovered during the deposition? http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/states_13_redacted.pdf
The letter serves an important service for the prosecution, it rehabilitates to some extent Sybrina and Tracy’s testimony. Consider also the date, prior statements had both of them stating that they did not have substantive talks with DD. In the ABC tape is it clear that this is not the case, they had talked to DD and were aware of the substance of her interview would be.
The letter provides an out, by establishing that DD had written this on the same day of the interview, ergo they had no opportunity to influence her statement. It also helps Crump for the same reason. That the statement differs from other can be explain in that she did not provide details but did under questioning.
If the letter was in fact written prior to the 19th (which I think likely) it will be the final nail in the coffin of W8’s credibility.
I’m sure the defense doesn’t want to tick the judge off by asking again to depose Crump, but if there is any uncertainty about the provenance of this letter they must.
Yup.
Wouldn’t this letter allow the defense to depose DD and Sydrina again if they wanted too?
According to the 13th Supplemental Discovery filed with the court on March 27th by the State, the defense was given the letter on March 15th. Recall that March 15th was the date of Sybrina Fulton’s deposition. Did she reveal it to the State and defense that day? Also W8’s deposition had to be rescheduled as it couldn’t be completed on March 13th so it’s likely that the defense would have been able to consider questions in the depositions about the letter.
The defense needs to keep scheduling things, that is when the State coughs evidence up.
The people prosecuting this case have done a huge disservice to people’s confidence in the justice system.
Wouldn’t the state had asked W8 and Sybrina about any statements they gave or knew of a long time ago?
Yes.
They would have to have asked them in order to comply with defense discovery requests (which no doubt included all statements). So more shenanigans from W8 and Sybrina.
I’m starting to think that this letter might be the key piece of evidence in this case.
W8 may have told them she was asked to write out a statement which she gave to Sybrina before she did a telephone interview in her partial deposition of March 13th.
No doubt they (Crump& Co) grilled W8 after her deposition to prepare themselves for their depositions (Tracy on Thursday, Sybrina on Friday) and Sybrina knew they know about the statement so she brought it forward.
or
The State has had this in it’s possession since March/April 2012 and gave it to the defense on the 15th when the defense learned of it’s existence through depositions. BDLR’s attitude towards discovery is as long as the defense gets it eventually what’s the problem. They learned W8 lied on March 4, 2013. I’ve known that since April 2, 2012 but so what! What harm has come to the defendant as a result?
Well for one, he was charged with murder based on the statement of a known liar and you it then.
Nettles – See my problem with all of this is that BDLR did probably “give it to the defense” on the 15th, meaning that maybe they delivered it to their office all the while knowing they were physically in Miami. I wouldn’t doubt that BDLR did exactly that. I am not saying that MOM/West couldn’t get info down there but it just seems like an asshole move that BDLR would make
concerning the W8 letter – total speculation here –
Assuming that the letter was written prior to W8 telephone (cough) “oral affidavit” interview by Crump, you can say that this letter represents the state of her mind at that point in time (when the letter was written).
This would mean that a lot of extraneous information that W8 may have learned from the media, from Tracy, from Sybrina, from one of Crump’s associates, from Gutman, from Crump etc, did not impact on her writing of this statement.
Her lack of concern after losing phone contact with TM when combined with this letter allows for speculation that she wasn’t that close to TM. [Some of the questions the MOM probably got an answer to, in the shortened deposition session, was “when” and “how” she learned of TM’s death and “what” she did in reaction to that.
Bear in mind that all of the information that Sybrina learned about the tragedy was second and third hand hearsay. Both Tracy and Sybrina, understandably, when hit with this tragedy would search for the most positive interpretation of events, which necessitated a most negative interpretation of GZ’s actions beginning with the fact that GZ was older and armed, and TM was younger and unarmed.
Both Tracy and Sybrina spoke w/W8 prior to the Crump interview. They would have a lot of questions. A lot of the questions would certainly involve whether she could confirm details that they had learned via hearsay – hearsay that may itself been influenced by what they wanted to hear and discounting that which they did not want to hear.
By asking W8 for confirmation of details, W8 “learns” of “facts” and eventually more “facts” as the Crump/Julison narrative gets up and running. In response, Tracy and Sybrina (likely independently) receive confirmation (in their minds) of certain factors from talking to W8. The “confirmation” then become corroboration in their minds and is relayed as such to Crump who has his own agenda running.
The Crump interview now imprints her memory with a suggested narrative (suggested through the repeated emphasis on certain points and recitation of those points).
W8 has lied to Sybrina about the hospital business and likely gave further false confirmation in response to Sybrina’s questions, which then simply affirmed the preconceptions that Sybrina already had.
BDLR’s rhetorical flourishes are amusing, but his statement-taking is an abomination. Basic investigative procedures are designed to avoid almost everything that BDLR did with W8. In order to get at what a witness truly knows and can recollect, the witness must be interviewed as soon possible in isolation. Granted, that this witness’s memory was trashed by what Crump did, but even at that late stage what BDLR failed to establish as background is unfathomable. And as I have written before, I was speechless to learn that Sybrina was sitting next to W8 while a sworn statement was taken from the witness of such potential importance.
The difference is size of the writing on the W8 letter seems to have been added, but is seems to be the same penmanship, and may have been added on at the same time when the letter was completed. The “Exhibit B” is in print and was likely added by someone else.
It would be helpful to have a color copy of the letter, to see if there are different inks if it was written in ink. It seems like pencil.
Also, we have yet to learn the nature of Gutman’s self-professed prior conversations with W8.
Hooson,
I agree with what you say, I will add the following, it seems that BDLR has been spending too much time at the CTH. He is trying to rehabilitate her statement by asserting that she wrote a statement prior to her interview, and any influence or coaching from the Scheme Team.
I really feel that BDLR did not want to released this written statement as it is different from her sworn statement and does not aid in establishing the charge. This account also matches GZ account and again TM is the one that initiates contact.
In trying to helps his case, he has again shown that he will withhold discovery to his benefit.
But how much time before the 3/19 interview, that’s the key. I realize DD isn’t very bright, but I’d like to think she knows how to articulate the difference between going to and coming back from a “cornerstore.”
I don’t think it matters as long as it was done before her statement could be corrupted, that is what counts.
I think it was done well before and that someone noticed that it didn’t fit with the narrative (TM coming back from the store, mad dash to father’s house, etc.) and prevailed on her to change her story.
I don’t see any way around this, but of course I’m not positive.
Mark I suspect you are right, I suspect that they needed the information they received from the city to bolster her account.
We are whistling in the dark here. We really know very very little about her. We have a couple of recordings, this letter, and a smattering of deduced facts.
What I forgot to mention in the above speculation is that the “letter” does not necessarily include everything she may have known or recalled (without outside influence).
In fact you could interpret the letter as a “de minimus” account, actually designed to minimize what she knows in order to avoid being drawn further into the public arena and in attempt to stay out of the case (for any variety of reasons. We also do not know the influence of her parents or close friends on her decision making.
The writing in the letter seems far more articulate than the mumbling heard in recorded form. Once again, it could be due to extreme reluctance at the situation she found herself in.
Lastly, as to memory, many times a witness will give an account, and then, sometimes later will recall other pertinent details that pop into mind as the memory is further processed in the subconscious. Often these latter recollections (if not contaminated by outside influence) are very helpful.
But the handling of W8 is so unbelievably trashed, the trashers (prosecution) could credibly assert that the witness is useless – by virtue of the prosecution’s own dereliction!
Yes, I suspect that wanted to give a minimal account in the hopes that it would keep her out of the case but, at the same time, make it appear that TM was the innocent party.
The scheme team then prevailed on her to add a few more dots to her story.
Cabbage Patch Trent give his approval to baldys embarassing rant StateOfTheInternet@StateoftheInter14h
@NeonAndRaven23 @GZlegalCase you would think I wrote that motion. I LOVE IT!!!
What the police told Tracy –
It is clear that the police kept Tracy (and Sybrina?) up on details, at least early on.
One of the details that figured importantly in the early part while SPD was still in charge was that there was no evidence to counter what GZ had told them. This may not have been relayed to Tracy as part of the update process because it belonged to the ongoing investigative process.
Either way it would not play well with Tracy who distrustful enough of the police that he would not cooperate with them on the matter of the cellphone.
I think a better theory is: DD was on her Simple Moblie phone all day with her boyfriend Boobie … who was still in Sanford with his best friend/cousin. Using Trayvon’s phone (not the dead “Heart” phone) Boobie told her that Trayvon decided they should go to the corner store. After that, Boobie dropped off Trayvon at the back gate but, not having the security code, he had to park his car on the street … to be reached through another complex. As he returned (and it started to rain too hard) he noticed a man behind him. So, he ran away between buildings (a short cut to Brandy’s back porch) and the man didn’t follow him again. BUT, George (responding to the NEN operator) moved his car to the end of the “T” sidewalk. So THEN, when Boobie looked back, he saw the man again … getting closer. Then (as we heard on the NEN call) the “looks black” hooded figure turned around … saying: “Why you following me for?” And DD heard all this. But (as George testified) with the windows rolled up, HE heard nothing … and soon saw Boobie running (skipping … because he had to release Trayvon’s microphone to grab his low rider pants which were falling down!). DD called back, got no response … and had no reason to be concerned.
But very unfortunately, Boobie actually ended up meeting Trayvon at Brandy’s porch. MMA Trayvon then went back to do a macho beat down of the “cracka” and (the still scared) Boobie drove right back to Miami … with Trayvon’s $22 wallet and phone.
$ybrina got all this after Boobie informed Tracy and her brother-in-law, but she needed a more incriminating story (to come from a teenage girlfriend (who she never heard of … and who didn’t know how to spell Trayvon!) So reluctantly, poor DD was convinced to sit next to her boyfriend’s aunt – the fearsome trashcan – and tell the “story” of her phone call … just inserting Trayvon’s name for who she was really talking to.
Time will tell.
That is equally possible and a testament to how much there is left to know that is knowable, starting with the PING LOGS.
The comma in the date is very different than the comma in Thank you. Something doesn’t look right with the 19 or the T in thank you. Al ot the “h’s” are different from the “h” in Thank you, most seem to have a hook at the bottom.
Almost looks like an 11 was turned into a 19.
The March 19, 2012 looks like it is written on something, such as a sticker or white out material.
I believe you are right the date seems to have been changed. Hmm…
The Ts look ok to me, but the commas are substantially different. Curiouser and curiouser.
Am I following this? The date on the letter is the 19th and MOM got it on the 15th?
NM, different year:)
“Then Trevon turned around and said why are you following me!!”
Does anyone believe for a minute that DD knows much of anything about punctuation such as using the double colon? DD said to Bernie twice in his interview “What are you following me for” and Why you following me for.” Why would she have dropped the for at the end in this letter?
From the DD interview with Bernie there are some other interesting things. Bernie asked her how often she talked on the phone with Trayvon. She replied daily. Then later in the interview Bernie asked her if “earlier in the day” if he mentioned anything about talking to his mom that day. DD replies “what you mean, when he went to the store. Bernie asked again if he was talking about his family earlier that day, talking about his mom. DD replies- he told me he ready to go home and watch…finish watching the game. Bernie says “the game?” DD says “yeah he left his little brother so he trying to rush.” I have to truly wonder just how much this person that was interviewed really knew Trayvon. She talks about him going home, to his little brother. Chad was not his brother, and Brandy’s was not home. Why change the subject when she was asked about him talking to his mother that day? Why did Bernie even bring up TM’s mother at all in the interview? Maybe just to add more credibility to the grieving mother, who I understand didn’t raise him since he was little.
In another part of the interview Bernie says to her- “OK so you could hear there was something going on. DD- Yeah. Bernie says “like something hitting something” DD replies Yeah, you could hear the grass thing. Bernie then says “I guess out of the speaker.. out of the” DD replies Yeah. I believe the earbuds were found in TM’s hoodie pocket, and were removed with the can to do CPR. They were both seen laying by his side by some of the police. Is Bernie helping her out when he implies that she could hear whatever she heard through the speaker? Isn’t it possible that the phone battery went dead when DD says the phone shut off? The police could not have found the battery to be dead for several hours, and the phone was in the wet grass for a good amount of time. Who knows when or why the battery went dead. In the letter DD simply says that she heard him fall, and then the phone went dead.
I don’t believe that the person that was interviewed knew Trayvon all that well and/or his family makeup.
all of it possible, and the data should be out there to prove it one way or the other.
They had a really busy day on March 19, 2012.
Lets recap.
I’m sure “deedee” was at the rally.
March 19, 2012: Trayvon’s parents renewed calls for Zimmerman to be arrested after the release of the 911 tapes, and college students gathered outside the Seminole County criminal courts to protest the incident which they felt was a case of racial profiling. The FBI and Justice Department also opened investigations into the handling of the case.”
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/120327/trayvon-martin-case-timeline
“College students rallied outside the Seminole County criminal courts building in Florida earlier in the day to bring attention to the killing of the 17-year-old unarmed black teenager, according to The Orlando Sentinel.
Prosecutors were set to review the Martin case and make a decision on whether to file criminal charges against the shooter, a white man.
“http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/120319/trayvon-martin-case-family-calls-investigation
Crump says that on March 18 he first learned from phone records that TM was on the phone with someone at the time of the altercation. He says that he interviewed her on March 19. I didn’t realize the gap was so short.
Is there any reason to think that anyone knew before March 18 that TM was on the phone with W8?
And also, Bernie says DD gave the letter to Sybrina prior to the telephone call with Crump.
Crump was with Sybrina in his office. He called DD at her residence for the interview.
How, when and where was the “letter” given to Sybrina?
Crump says he hasn’t spoken to DD after the interview, but doesn’t say what communication he had with her before.
How did he get her parents consent if he didn’t know her last name?
This all seems like a lot to happen in one day or so.
The telephone interview by Crump with W8 (and Gutman and his assistant(s) was in the living room of Fulton’s home in Miami. Crump’s office is in Tallahassee I believe. W8 went to Jacksonville to be interviewed by BDLR.
That makes sense that DD and Sybrina were together and Crump et al was with them. If true, Sybrina and Tracy were not with each other when she was interviewed. You can clearly hear him speak in Crump’s presence on the tape.
The question I still have is, are you sure Crump was in his office and not in someone else’s or somewhere else in Miami? ABC’s studio’s for example. Tallahassee and Miami are like 8-10 hours away aren’t they?
Anyone know for sure?
The interview was in Fort Lauderdale in the office of a friend of Crump. Apparently DD was at Sybrina’s house with Sybrina. Sybrina was with DD and Crump, Tracy and the rest were in Fort Lauderdale.
Are you sure about that? I know I heard Tracy’s voice on the recording in the room with Crump. I can’t remember which one, but I remember commenting about it when someone asked whose voice that was. Sybrina would have to be at her house with DD. She wouldn’t leave her there by herself.
You wrote: “Sybrina was with DD and Crump, Tracy and the rest were in Fort Lauderdale.” or
Did you mean this? “Sybrina was with DD. Crump, Tracy and the rest were in Fort Lauderdale.” If that, then I misunderstood.
Damn punctuation, it’ll get you every time. 🙂
Sorry about the confusion, Crump and crew were at a lawyers friend of Crump.
Sybrina was with DD at her house. Don’t if anyone else was with Sybrina, but my guess would be DD’s mom.
Hi EJARRA….yep Crumpadumps office is indeed in Tallahassee( it is formally a funeral home LOL) and yes Miami is at minimum 10 hours from Tally….closer to 12 with any stops or traffic.
http://www.today.com/id/46781618/ns/today-today_people/#.UVZ3x5M3vzx
I wonder where they are here. This was on the same day. You can see Crump coaching her at 2:16.
You can add one more lie to the long list of lies that Crump told. 70′? More like 370′ Mr.Martin may have been to Brandi’s that night, but he attacked George about 380 feet from her condo.
Most likely they were at an NBC affiliate in Miami that morning. The DD interview was done later on.
hi i don’t post here….i just read. you guys are excellent.
i have to say this letter belongs in Ripley’s Bellieve It Or Not. The nearest one is in St. Augustine, FL. I have a frame for it and i wouldn’t mind taking a trip there to donate it.
thanks.
“In an interview with the Orlando Sentinel on Friday, defense attorney Mark O’Mara said he received the new letter March 13, the day he deposed Witness 8 in South Florida.
“I’m glad I have it now. I don’t know when (the state) received it,” O’Mara said, adding prosecutors would not say when they did.”
So the 13th Supplemental is incorrect when it states March 15th the letter was given to the defense. This is beyond ridiculous.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-trayvon-martin-girlfriend-letter-20130329,0,5093198.story
Note that the reporter Jeff Weiner states:
“The one-page letter largely corroborates Witness 8’s other accounts
of what she heard on the phone”
It would more correct to say that the letter – partially – corroborated her other accounts, and only on insignificant detail.
Kind of a strange use of “corroborate.” I say the same thing three times and so I have “corroboration”?
Response from the Defense to yesterday’s rant from the State.
“George Zimmerman was arrested under an extraordinary set of circumstances, and he is being prosecuted under similar circumstances. As we prepare for a jury trial in June, we have real concerns about George’s ability to receive a fair trial. The DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR SANCTIONS AGAINST STATE ATTORNEY’S OFFICE FOR DISCOVERY VIOLATIONS is not a frivolous attack on the prosecution, it is a serious attempt to seek remedy for discovery violations that have a substantial impact on our ability to defend George.
What is at stake is George Zimmerman’s right to a fair trial, and in a broader sense, what is at stake is the sanctity of the criminal justice system and its ability to function properly under the incredible public and political pressures that have been placed upon it.”
http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/135-with-respect-to-the-state-s-response-to-defendant-s-motion-for-sanctions-against-state-attorney-s-office-for-discovery-violations
That’s it? Good grief. Weak.
I posted part of the press release. The link is there to read the whole thing. You on the bashing bandwagon too?
What’s the “bashing bandwagon”? I read the thing and it amounts to not much. These two parts below are really the only parts that address it and given what Bernie wrote this response is weak, I don’t know how else it can be taken.
“while pointed, has little substance that addresses the very serious motion we have before the Court.”
“is not a frivolous attack on the prosecution, it is a serious attempt to seek remedy for discovery violations that have a substantial impact on our ability to defend George.”
the BDLR response was personal and vitriolic. i think it best not to respond. the issue before the court is not MOM’s unethical behavior. the motion is for sanctions for the state’s unethical behavior. to use the “You are guilty too” approach is not addressing the issue.
i think it is mcdaniel, the english teacher, who is constantly amazed by MOM’s mastery of the understatement. How do you respond to complete garbage? The oral argument should be interesting. Judge Nelson will probably act like the mother to 2 (or more) spoiled little brats.
These are all getting to be sideshows. It is time for the main event. Let the jury decide. Then we can all gloat or crawl back under our rocks, as the case may be.
D-man, I don’t think this is a pleading or response filed with the court. This is just O’Mara/West explaining to those who read the GZ Legal site that they shouldn’t put much stock into BDLR’s rant.
i like the response; it is short and sweet. There will of course be fireworks during oral argument.
I think the defense response was so weak, personal and bizarre that it really merits no response.
I agree, but do not share your criticism of Robert. I think he has struck a nerve about the venal media, and the masses pandering to racial politics. That is an important service in the pursuit of justice.
i agree with his criticism of the media. i just think his racist rants are wacko. he just burned all bridges for being an intelligent commentator. someone should have screened his tweets.
OK. I gotta be honest, when I first saw Elkins facebook photo it reminded me of TM facebook photo representing the same hostility. I accept that it is both offensive and true, but that is because I differentiate between blacks and black thugs. So I do not see his tweet as racist as much as a comment on sub culture among SOME youth. The black youth who are friends of my sons would completely get the message RZ put out comparing the two teens capable of violence.
yes, there is absolutely the gangster culture of young blacks. but to make the comparison that they are all alike is really kind of stupid. .
i always love the line…”some of my best friends are black!”
i would really hope that we could keep this blog free from the stupid racial comments and the making fun of blacks evident in other low-life redneck endeavors.
+1
I really hope you are not accusing me of such by commenting on my sons black friends perspective.
Because the nuance matters. It is really hard on black kids who are afraid of black gangsters, usually after being victimized, to speak their minds freely when so many PC rules take precedent over the truth. From my experiences with youth violence, two kids who grew up in with our kids dead in the last two years, the racial aspects matter plenty.
That makes sense.
Robert admitted that he was trying to demonstrate that on TM’s and Elkins FB/Tweets whatever, that they are similar in how they view themselves. Their FB/Tweets demonstrate they want to look tough and follow the thug culture. Nobody forced them to talk/tweet the way they do, or show pictures to the public of themselves the way they wanted to be represented. They weren’t dressing up for Halloween … it’s what they portrayed themselves to be over and over again. Crump responded to Robert’s interview that you cannot judge ppl by their online personal media.
Is that true?
Crump went on to say you can’t know what’s in someone’s heart from their tweets, etc. At the very moment he said that I thought that would go for Robert too, when they are quick to brand him a racist. Robert tended to agree with Crump’s statement to Piers when he defended himself against accusations of racism. I say stop right there. Although Robert may have been misunderstood, he continues now with a much more clear demonstration. And I would disagree with Crump and Robert (if Robert agrees) that you can’t form a mental picture of one’s personal life by viewing their PERSONAL online media. To anyone reading his tweets or Facebook, I think you get a very clear picture of what is going on with that individual if they have been talking/conversing/tweeting and posting pictures over a good amount of time. One or two tweets does not make it … it has to be over time. Does it give you a 100% picture of the REAL person? Probably not. What it definitely does give you is how they perceive themselves to be The internet has become a powerful tool for self-expression. Just my opinion.
O’Brien pressed O’Mara, offering the interpretation that actual understanders-of-words took from the tweet. “I thought what he was saying was, like, here’s one black thug, here’s another black thug,” Soledad said, “one of them being Trayvon Martin, and let’s connect the two of them when actually in real life they’re just connected because they’re both teenage boys and they’re both black.”
O’Mara agreed. “The only real connection we know about is they have black skin, and they have middle fingers,” he said, adding “Not the connection to make in a very, very serious conversation.”
but MOM is part of the BGI so it’s now wonder all he sees is that they are black teenage boys giving the finger. They could have been two white teenagers doing the same thing, dressed the same way, portraying themselves as such and you would still get the same message …. THUGS or thug wannabes. I would see two teenage males, black or white, that see no future for themselves. Cause if they did, they wouldn’t be sending out these tweets or images where potential employers could see it. Today employers are very concerned with knowing about you from a liability standpoint. mmmm yes, and here’s our latest head of aviation at Fly the Skies United. Nice !!! Unless Fly the Skies United caters to flying hardcore rappers all over the country … I don’t think it’s going to go over too good … do you? Message: No future aspirations. The thug life will provide.
but then William Ayers was a long hair hippy and used bombs violent activism to send his message, and he’s Prof. at University of Illinois at Chicago. Ya gotta love those libs. They sure know how to work it. Imagine if he had the benefit of internet back then.
I would expect Judge Nelson to perhaps sanction any obvious discovery violations, like not allowing videotaping. But it is sad to say that her bizarre rulings are either being sent down from above or she is completely deficient in the law. Her rulings have been intellectually and legally dishonest. Yet there was a sliver of hope when she finally ruled for the defense after it was evident that W8 had misrepresented the hospital issue.
She will probably give both sides a mild hand slapping, tell them to grow up and get down to business. The only reason that the defense came at MOM so hard is that they can see their case falling apart. Indeed, what do RZ’s rants have to do with the issue at hand? Why put that garbage in a motion? They are really doing everything that they accuse the defense of doing–grandstanding and acting unethically.
Stevie G- I think you may be using “defense” when you likely mean the prosecution.
yes, thanks. Should be: The only reason that the state came at MOM so hard….
As an aside, it is kind of strange that the state has resorted to attacking MOM instead of gz. No case or motion against MOM is pending before the court.
Judge Nelson should apply some sanction, but I am afraid from the way that she has ruled so far that there is little expectation that she will do so.
The Judge not being available by phone the day of the deposition reeks. She knew they had it scheduled and she has witnessed the push and pull between the sides with information about this witness. To be available at 9am should have been penciled in in case they needed a ruling.
From what I gather, they waited 5 hours, couldn’t get an answer and the defense gave in and agreed to do it without video-taping to get a partial one done.
It makes me think she knew what BLDR was going to do.
Yes and to then cancel the April 2nd hearing, abruptly it seems. And after filing the order for GZ to be present at that hearing (which I think was sorted out as not out of ordinary). Hope she had a nice Vacation….
Another thing DD said in the BDLR interview was that Trayvon was rushing home to finish watching the game. TM was already deceased by the time the game came on. I wonder who it was that came up with the game angle? Maybe the same who came up with Iced Tea?
Those “facts” came from early media reports about the incident. They are a marker to help us determine if a witness is telling the truth. Anyone who uses the “halftime” timeline, or says Trayvon was carrying Arizona Iced Tea, or says that it was a little boy screaming for help, or any of a number of other inconsistent false facts (like, for instance, saying that “Trevon” was going to the “cornerstore” which wasn’t on the corner and was more than a half mile away) shows quickly that their supposed “recollection” of the events is nothing more than a retelling of the false reporting that was occurring at that time.
I think the iced tea was based on a mistake in the police inventory.
I wonder where all these mistakes come from.
The most interesting is the mad dash to the home that featured in DD’s account and Gutman’s version. It’s so contrary to the location of the body and the timing. This is what makes me think DD was on the phone. She probably heard TM say “I’m running home” or something like that.
Almost all of the “narrative” which Crump used to force, I want to use “extort” but that term may be a little overboard, a charge against George Zimmerman was bits and pieces of investigative information obtained from the investigation. It started out with gossip, misinformation, misconstrued (whether purposely or not) snippets that went like a game of telephone between Martin’s family, the press, leakers from SPD and the city officials of Sanford, and neighbors in the townhouse development. It was a jumble of fact and ,well, gossip. This often happens after situations like this but as facts began to emerge, Crump and the Martins used the confusion to launch their own version of events which had very little to do with what happened and intimidate the city of Sanford with the assistance of some of the employees. Using a PR representative, colluding with the media to obtain investigative information from law enforcement, and using political and civil rights representatives to craft an evolving narrative which was known to be false may be used somewhat at the trial but I think this is what is going to be the Beasley firms basis for lawsuits. Crump and his minions rashly recorded every twist and turn of their machinations in the media fully expecting a Corey special (overcharge, strip the defendant of assets, terrorize the defendants family and lawyers, and then condescendingly accept a plea) which would close the book and allow settlements from all concerned for damages. The narrative and W8’s part in it was for effect and not substance which is why the state of Florida has hid it.
DD’s letter is strange also in that she mentions him going to “another complex” and that’s the only mention of that. And it’s not very important in the grand scheme of things. His trying to get home would be more important than that.
Perhaps I’ve been reading too much into this statement. She isn’t bright enough to summarize and advertisement for paper towels.
for a person that is proficient in “uh huh” and “eh heh”, “he be” “he go” “he say” you want me to believe she came up with words like “complex” and “tragic”. come on now.
Exactly. “Complex?” Please. That word did not originate with Ms. ‘Little Bit Drippin Water.’ Someone gave her the word, and how to spell it.
yeah, “little bit drippin water” instead of “light rain”? (sigh)
The defense posted their newsflash about the Bernie meltdown-
http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/135-with-respect-to-the-state-s-response-to-defendant-s-motion-for-sanctions-against-state-attorney-s-office-for-discovery-violations
Interpretation- When someone continues to dig the hole deeper, and is at the point where he can’t even see daylight any longer, let him keep digging.
Bernie has been obsessed about O’Mara speaking to the media, doing interviews, and talking about the case on a website set up to provide the defense perspectives and documents. From the beginning we know that Crump et al took the job of slamming GZ as a vigilante murdering profiling guy who was out to score a kill that night. Oh, and he was a racist. Bernie cannot stand that another side is being exposed. It doesn’t help the prosecution, especially when the star witness is proving to be a liar.
Buy more popcorn. The duel is just getting started.
Obviously this is a civil rights scam. Cooked and booked. Area 51 where are you. Another complex? come on. We know what that is. He was a prowler prowling as far as a reasonable person could tell. Nothing wrong with reporting it and checking it out since your wife was home alone down the street. The scammers scam may fall apart at the seams.
pinecone (minpin) – BDLR would have lost his mind had he prosecuted Casey Anthony’s case. Baez & Casey’s 6 or 7 lawyers were on NATIONAL News Media weekly as well as Casey’s nut job family being wined and dined by the National Media. Baez’s team didn’t waste their time w/the Orlando News or Sentinel reporters. The mantra: “Casey is INNOCENT, Casey loved Caylee and was a great mother, the State has endless resources to prosecute an innocent mother.” A gag order was proposed by the State but failed, Linda Drane Burdick/Jeff Ashton never showed their disgust at the non stop media blitz by the defense since they couldn’t do anything about it, they were true professionals, unlike BDLR and Corey.
I don’t understand WHY Corey or Bondi thought BDLR’s rant was appropriate and professional, imo, it makes them too look as dishonest and unprofessional as BDLR.
Pears to me they are all in. Holding a busted flush.
Looks like the Omara is getting the picture. And he don’t like it.
Looking at the latest article at the Treehouse by matching up the characters in the photo of the statements from each witness with the character spaces above and below I can see that DeeDee’s name that is blacked out contains 6 letters in her first name and 6 letters in her last name.
Can not remember who the original suspected DeDe was but maybe this will help.
From the OS:
In Zimmerman case, rhetoric heats up between prosecutor, defense!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-fight-20130329,0,5792497.story
“”He’s got an extremely weak case that he’s trying to shore up by hiding the ball,” O’Mara said Friday. “I want the money because I want him to learn he just can’t keep doing it.”
Bernie is a poor sport and this is not the gentlemanly thing to do. Sniff. O’Mara can be nasty too in his own way.
LMAO, from the OS link I posted above, criticism of BDLR by Orlando Legal Analyst, Tennis’ comment is priceless:
De la Rionda’s pleading, said Orlando attorney Diana Tennis, read as if it were crafted by someone who “writes it drunk at 2 a.m.”
Bill Sheaffer, Orlando lawyer and analyst for WFTV-Channel 9, said it was “over the top and … not professional.”
Said O’Mara: “I think it is unfortunate and inappropriate.”
What’s not clear is what the judge will do about it. She is on vacation next week.
Like Judge Roy Bean. Amazing.
BDLR’s response does smack of panic and terror. The less said by O’Mara the louder Bernie sounds.
Art Tart…are you sure the judge is on vacation? She vacations in a spot I frequent and I happen to “run into her” during her Christmas Break……hmmmmmm…….;)
FlaLadyBug –
From the Orlando Sentinel Article pertaining to Judge Nelson’s vacation next week:
What’s not clear is what the judge will do about it. She is on vacation next week.
One possibility is a lecture to both sides, something she’s already done with a quick word during hearings when the two sides have begun to bicker.
The animosity shouldn’t be surprising, Sheaffer and Tennis said, given the prominence and importance of the case.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-fight-20130329,0,5792497.story
At the last hearing, Judge Nelson said that April 2 was an already scheduled Vac day for her, but that she would be in town and had no problem coming in, if they had something that needed to be heard or delt with (paraphrasing) So thats what was really odd to me lol, but not so much so after Omara filed the Chump motion, IMHO she decided she needed her vac day instead. Sad IMHO since was scheduled and they have very limited days til trial.
Putting aside whether there is one or two DeeDee’s and whether or not either was on the phone with Trayvon, let’s assume that the statement writer (notice I did not say author) was on the phone with Trayvon. I think a possible scenario is that the reluctant DeeDee would not initially consent to any interviews by the big bad lawyers (why is for another discussion, I have my own opinions), but Sybrina was dispatched by the Scheme Team to procure a written statement. A statement that Crump et.al. could use to force an “aress” . Sybrina was successful in convincing DeeDee that all she had to do was give a statement; she would never be contacted again: justice for Trayvon after all. Sybrina then dictated the statement to DeeDee so that it would be in her handwriting. But neither Sybrina nor DeeDee were savvy enough to get in all the talking points and the resulting statement sounds contrived. Sybrina returned to Crump’s office with the statement, all happy and everything, but Crump said something like “This isn’t good enough, it doesn’t have all the right “details” so they then have Sybrina call DeeDee and a preparatory “interview” is conducted where Crump explains that he needs DeeDee to expand her statement, perhaps even coaching her as to exactly what to say. All the while telling her that it is all they need, she will never have to be seen again, we will protect you, your identity will never be public, we’ll say you are 16 etc. So now, we get the second statement, but this time it is an oral one, shoddily recorded and unsigned. Even though this statement is not as good as Crump would like, he believes it is good enough and the rest is history.
His friends the day after said it was a fight. Day after that cousin admitted trayvon put bangaz on cracka. Then in march he reflected how he got high with him and slapped box the night before. I have video of those tweets. Utube deleted them. Was an eye opener. Can reupload. This whole story is a scam.
Could the cousin have received a text, beforehand, indicating the intent to do this?
Over the months, some of us have wondered whether Chad could somehow be involved, since the story of him just sitting there and hearing/seeing NOTHING is so far-fetched. But the more I think about it, the more I’m thinking about possible involvement by a different guy… Stephen. Maybe not directly involved, but something. I’m really starting to get interested in the idea that maybe Dee Dee was a girl that Stephen, not Trayvon, knew.
I am leaning that way too Jello – cousin- involved more. Also why would DD just assume she would be getting all kinds of attention? Why would she assume people would be asking HER questions at the wake? I didnt word that correctly, hope you understand. Also as stated multi times here, the misspelling of TM name….
Also in her March 19th statement she said people were saying bad things about Trayvon but she defended that he was changing his life. Who was saying bad things? No one knew about him or the suspension until Robles article on March 26th. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
Coincidentally, this was the day that BDLR, O’Steen, Crump and lawyers and TM family members met at 9:40 a.m. and a statement of what was discussed was entered into discovery. Page. 28/284 – No mention of W8 or the March 19th interview or Trayvon being a “bad boy” who was changing his life. http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf
Nettles helpp!! I am trying to locate an interview, not sure if written or on video, this was an early report, that claimed that TM was shot 100 feet from the 7-11. It was quoting a family member, I was thinking Uncle Stephen, if you know what I am talking about I would appreciate a link. Thanks in Advance.
You are thinking of the initial report that was posted in the Miami Herald on March 2nd. Uncle Ron said Trayvon lived with him. The report also said he went to buy ice cream and a drink. The article is archived by someone at the treehouse had posted what it said. This is what I’ve got:
Miami Herald – March 2, 2012 –
Miami teen shot dead while visiting family in Central Florida
A Miami teenager visiting family in Central Florida is coming home in a casket. Trayvon Martin, 17, was visiting family members in Sanford when he was shot to death by a man at a convenience store on Monday night. The teen walked into the store to buy ice cream and Skittles. He had $22 in his pocket. About 100 feet from the building, Martin was confronted by an armed man who shot him dead, said his uncle Ronald Fulton, who lived with the teen
Read more here: http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_multi=MH%7C&p_product=MH&p_theme=realcities2&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_site=miami&s_trackval=MH&s_search_type=keyword&p_text_search-0=monique%20AND%20o.%20AND%20madan%20AND%20trayvon%20AND%20martin&s_dispstring=monique%20o.%20madan%20trayvon%20martin%20AND%20date(all)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no#storylink=cpy
Thanks again.
This is interesting, because W-8’s “letter” implies that TM was on his way to the store when he was shot and killed. For this reason I suspect that the letter/statement was well before 3/19.
Notice the date March 2nd is also the day of the wake. Uncle Ron is Sybrina’s brother, stands to reason that he has never been to Brandy place. The only reporting was the video that shows Tracy and Brandy walking away from their Condon to where TM was shot. Brandy saying that TM was sitting on the porch and this man came and shot him. Could be related to that. I am trying to connect the dots.
“saying bad things about Trayvon” is a big clue that at least some of his community knew he was headed in the wrong direction. Part of the early PR campaign was to get the black community to believe that he was an innocent and accomplished young person as well as to demonize the “white Hispanic” with a Germanic surname. The idea of Trayvon talking to a sympathetic young person about his troubles is not far fetched at all. But it is would have to be hidden because it would be acknowledging that he had problems with his behavior and choices and it did not fit the narrative that Crump et al were constructing. It is another reason to hide her and use her cynically for their own spin.
When did the prosecution receive this letter from the Sybrina Fulton or her legal representative?
Does the redacted signature correspond to the name of the Dee Dee, whom BDLR deposed?
Didn’t BDLR say that she signed it with her “nickname” (and that was to prevent the kind of attention she is getting now). I don’t know if there are two DeeDees or not, but gosh, it sure feeds the theory – a paper supposedly signed in Crump’s presence with a name that wouldn’t correspond with the DeeDee who was later deposed.
Over a year has passed. Isn’t that just crazy?
A whole year has passed and we still haven’t seen her face and still haven’t verified her name.
What I find odd, is with so many people saying that the “wrong” person has been identified as DD (even BDLR said in a hearing), WHY hasnt this person came forward, or an attny or something and stated that? Or tried to sue someone or something? That is odd to me. If I were being wrongly accused of something, especially on the level of this, and I WAS NOT THAT PERSON, you bet your Sunday Dinner that I would be screaming from the rooftops! Does anyone else find it weird?
Oh, good point. I’d often thought about it being really weird that the Dee Dee(s?) we hear on the tapes hasn’t had any friends or family members come to her defense (anonymously, of course). But I hadn’t really thought of how that Daisha girl has acted, assuming she’s NOT a Dee Dee. You’re right… why hasn’t she complained or filed a lawsuit or something?
Were I on the defense team, I’d simply ask DeeDee to read aloud the letter in open court. I think that would go a long way in providing reasonable doubt as to whether these were her own words. I don’t think she’d manage very well, IMO.
It might “refresh” whatever memory function she has left. Then it could be “refreshed” with her Crump and SA interview’s. Also whatever interview she did for the state in Jax. when they flew her up in August could be refreshed. Then her social media could be refreshed. How refreshing.
Does anyone think that the same person who was interviewed by Crump and BDLR is the same person who wrote that letter based on style, word usage, grammar, etc.?
I don’t know if it was the same person(s), but I have no doubt that whomever it was, she was coached and spoon-fed each line. This is why I said I’d have her read aloud in open court the letter. Imagine the DeeDee we have heard on the tapes reading this letter aloud in court…I for one feel it would be an eye opener for the jury.
Throughout all of W8’s interviews, she made stressed that TM was so scared that all he was trying to do was get home, . She said he told him to run but he (TM) said he was not going to run but walk very fast. Now, she is saying she thought it was just a fight. Nothing serious. What she is stating in the letter Indicates to me she thought TM was not afraid of the creepy white man but was handling his business. Also, what is up with the he walked through the another complex because of the rain? What other complex and why is it important to get that out now?
IMO there was no intention of releasing this statement, it was done only because it had been revealed in the Depositions, so BDLR had not choice but to released it. The statement is problematic, to someone who does not know any details of the case, reading the statement would thing that the event happen when TM was on his way to the store, not on the way back. It does not indicate any fear in the part of TM and the communication was lost before she could hear anything from GZ. So everything she said afterward, hearing the grass, a little get off, etc seem like embellishments.
“IMO there was no intention of releasing this statement, it was done only because it had been revealed…”
Which is the same reasoning that was behind the family holding a press conference to fess up about ‘Trevon’ being suspended… the same day that the Miami Herald was going to expose the lie anyway.
And the eventual confession seven months later from BDLR & Guy that Dee Dee had lied under oath… the evening before the hearing where her lies were going to be exposed anyway.
The truth only seems to come out when lying is no longer an option for these folks.
BDLR was clear, he said in open court he was not going to do the Defense’s job. I guess now we know that he will hide discovery, and only release if necessary. BDLR has his own Constitutional rules he goes by, it seems.
It’s interesting to note, too, that despite Crump’s earlier claims that Trevon had used the security code and entered through the front gate… this ‘lost’ letter from Dee Dee claiming instead that Trevon took a shortcut and cut through adjacent neighborhoods suddenly surfaces out of the blue after the defense has subpoenaed the security camera footage from the businesses along the direct route from the RTL to 7-11.
So once again, we’ve got ‘evidence’ being released to the defense only when yet another portion of the Tea & Skittles narrative is on the verge of being exposed as a lie… and I think we can safely assume that neither hide nor hair of Trevon will be seen walking to or from the cornerstore on the video footage.
And once again, we’ve got a new explanation that raises more questions than it answers… how did Trevon even know his way through the adjacent neighborhoods? Had he been in there before? Did those residents also have a history of break-ins?
I’ve walked the path from the 7-Eleven to the RTL neighborhood. There are two other complexes along that path, but it’s not like you really cut THROUGH them to get from one to the other, although you can cut through the parking lots if you want. If you go to this map, you can see on the left side, there are markers for Sam’s Club and Boston’s Fish House. Right between those markers would be the 7-Eleven. Then, to the right, at the corners of Oregon Ave and S Oregon Ave, sits the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The “shortcut” that Zimmerman talks about is on the upper left portion of the RTL property. If you look at the northern part of Retreat View Circle, and then notice how it bends down to the southwest, right at that bend is where there is a “cut-through” (I think that’s the word GZ used) to get from Oregon Ave into the RTL property without going through the gates at either end of Twin Trees.
Using Google Maps, it looks like it’s about 3100 feet to walk from that cut-through in a straight line along Oregon Ave, cutting across the vacant lot between Towne Center Blvd and Oregon Ave, then straight down Rinehart Rd to the 7-Eleven. If you go straight from the cut-through at the RTL, cutting through the parking lots of the two adjacent complexes, it saves you about 200 ft total from your journey. That’s hardly worth the effort unless you’re up to no good.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.792005,-81.33536&spn=0.007569,0.016512&t=m&z=17
Cutting through that area still makes no sense, at it had been raining and looking at the pictures that whole area would have have been a muddy mess.
Good point. And wasn’t Trademark wearing Jordans? I’m sure he wouldn’t have wanted to get them all wet and muddy.
Especially for someone who supposedly had only been to Brandy’s 6-7 times. Yet, he knew the neighborhood well enough to use the other complex as a shortcut. I wonder if the other complex had a fence, I know that RTL did not at that time.
I wonder how Miss DD knew about the area.
Google and plenty of new reports, not to mention the family.
Crump says in his affidavit that “present with me in the room were Trayvon’s parents . . . ” par 20
If true, that’s perjury.
What reason is there to think Sybrina wasn’t with Crump? BDLR’s statement doesn’t say immediately before.
Sybrina was in Miami with DD while Crump was in Ft Lauderdale during the interview. Sybrina was NOT with Crump when he listed who was there. That is perjury.
Do Crump and/or Gutman say they were in Ft Lauderdale? I hope you can give a reference. Likewise, how it is known that Sybrina was in Miami? TIA.
Ejarra- I’ve read that comment before, don’t remember who said it. I’ve been trying to find any evidence that Sybrina wasn’t in Crump’s presence during the telephone interview. The judge gave Crump 10 days to give her a list of the names of those with him during the taped interview. Sybrina was on that list. Not that I believe anything Crump says, he is a proven liar, but I can’t find any evidence that Sybrina was with W8 wherever she was when giving the interview.
I checked the defense motion for sanctions, where they talk about DD lying about her age and hospital visit, and why she lied. It was written- “The reason W8 gave for lying to Mr. Crump was that Trayvon Martin’s mother was ‘present’ during the interview. It says nothing about Sybrina being with her physically. Then they mention that Sybrina was sitting next to DD during the BDLR interview.
As I said I don’t remember where I read that claim first, but could it be just someone’s theory?
Crump says he was in a “residence” in “South Florida.” Since Tracy and Sybrina live in Miami, I’m not sure why he would go to Ft. Lauderale. Perhaps he used the residence/office of a friend.
I believe it was Jerilyn that said that the interview was conducted in Crump’s lawyer friend in Fort lauderdale.
No it wasn’t me. I said the media interview the next day was conducted from a law office in Ft. Lauderdale.
I was just re-reading that and my recollection was faulty, my apologies. You clearly state the press conference on pg.9 of your breakdown.
I don’t think Sybrina was with Witness 8 during Crump’s interview, but at her house with the others. Crump gave the press conference the next day from his friend’s law office in Ft. Lauderdale.
Gutman, Crump, Tracy and Sybrina were all in the same room. Crump said in his affidavit he didn’t know who was with Dee Dee at her end.
See this ABC News article where Gutman says: “Martin’s father, Tracey Martin, and mother, Sybrina Fulton, listened to the call, along with ABC News, ashen-faced. ”
It’s clear from the call that Gutman and Crump are in the same room because you can hear them (or Gutman’s assistant) at one point talking about how unclear the call is and whether they should try a landline.
This might explain the need for Witness 8 to be on speakerphone at her end, It is mention on one of the clips that having both Crump and Witness 8 on speakerphone was affecting the quality of the recording.
That is my understanding also. I think the Fort Lauderdale news conference has been mixed in. Crump had so many media appearances at that time that you have to diagram it. Fulton was listening and present with both questioners in early interviews both when Crump questioned W8 over the phone and when BDLR did in person. This highly questionable, I think unethical, and both hopefully will have to explain why they did this to W8.
What evidence do we have that Sabrina and Double Dee Dee were in Miami while Crump and crew were in Ft Lauderdale? Perhaps everyone was in the same building but different rooms when the infamous interview over the phone occurred? This would enable Sabrina to coach the Double Dee Dee even more than the Gutman tape indicates.
I’d recommend everyone read Jeralyn’s discussion of the timing issue (which she wrote before the “letter” was made public) here:
Click to access abccrumpwitness8.pdf
at pages 8-10.
She points out that it seems unlikely that W-8 was identified, convinced to give an interview, the interview is arranged, etc. all within 24 hours or so. And getting the statement would probably involve another meeting, making it more unlikely.
Also, Crump tells W-8, after she says that Zimmerman said “what are you talking about” that she had something different to the Martins (“what are you doing around here”).
So I’m confident in saying that W-8 was identified prior to March 18.
Note that Tracy and Sybrina both lied when they said they didn’t go into any details of the final phone call with W-8.
I suspect that the letter/statement was made before Tracy and Sybrina’s meeting with her. They had the statement and realized it wasn’t dramatic enough and coached her on the party line.
According to Tracy, he found out on the night of Sunday, March 18 that W-8 was on the phone with TM. He talks to her and says his attorney will be in touch.
According to Sybrina, she talked to W-8 and her mother by phone. At some point, someone dropped W-8 off at Sybrina’s apartment and they talked. She then drove W-8 home.
Now it’s very unlikely that Sybrina’s meeting was that night. If it were on the 19th, we have to believe that Crump goes to Ft. Lauderdale from wherever. Guttman (who is Miami based) drives to Ft. Lauderale (45 mins. away).
Tracy and Sybrina are lying. I’m not going to accuse Crump of lying, but I think it’s possible that the Martins call Crump on the 18th and tell him they have been talking to W-8 and she’s prepared to give an interview. Perhaps it could all be arranged by the late afternoon of the 19th.
I read Jeralyn’s analysis, and largely agreed with her theories, until she said she didn’t think Crump was lying. Crump has been proven to have lied, which Jeralyn covers earlier in her article when she goes over the fact that Crump provided a sworn affidavit saying that there was only silence on his end during the times when he turns the recorder off. Then the ABC partial recording comes out which proves that Crump lied that there was no discussion during the off recorder periods. She talks about Crump’s coaching DD to change her statement from “What are you talking about” to “What are you doing in here?” Crump reminds DD to say what she had previously told Mr. Tracy and Ms. Sybrina. Ha, Tracy and Sybrina were not supposed to have talked with DD about any of the details, but as Jeralyn points out, he just threw them under the bus with that statement, however, that only came out on the ABC recording, and likely Crump never thought an ABC recording would ever see the light of day. She makes an excellent point that GZ saying “What are you talking about” doesn’t put GZ in a position where he is asking about Trayvon’s presence in the neighborhood as does “What are you doing in here?” Remember the original narrative sent out to the media was screaming that an innocent little boy was walking home with skittles and tea, and he had the right to be where he was.
There is no question in my mind that Tracy and Sybrina did in fact have some pretty heavy duty “chats” with DD, and likely long before Crump did the telephonic interview. Remember Tracy and Sybrina jumped on the $ bandwagon very quickly after the incident. Sybrina trademarked Trayvon’s name. Tracy called a wrongful death attorney within days of the shooting.
Something else that strikes me as odd is that Corey was named the special prosecutor on about March 22. Bondi announced her appointment, and I believe in that same TV interview she said that there was a witness that was refusing to come forward. Crump’s recorded interview with her took place just 2-3 days prior. Something, no, many things just don’t add up. Just as many feel that if DD lied before, what else will she lie about. The very same should apply to Crump. Maybe my problem is that I don’t think like a lawyer. Thank God for that.
The defense will have to examine the Martins gingerly and, to a lesser extent, W-8.
We now know that Crump talked to Mr. Tracy and Ms. Sybrina about W-8’s version of events and that he was likely the recipient or conduit for the written statement. Certainly this is not something you would gather from his affidavit.
Based on the non-dramatic nature of the written statement and the fact that she misspells TM’s name, I don’t think it was made in the presence or under the direction of the Martins or Crump. I think after Sybrina met with W-8, W-8’s mother had her write a statement that she could give to Sybrina, who would give it to Crump. Obviously this makes Crump’s chronology almost certainly wrong as well. It is, however, possible that by Sunday Tracy had herd from W-8 that she would cooperate and an interview was set up by late Monday.
Good likelyhood. There is a sense in all this that her parents did not want her involved.
My suspicion is that it was rumored early on that W-8 was the last person to talk to TM and the Martins contacted her and eventually persuaded her to give an interview. Tracy then called up Crump and, using the pretext of the cell phone numbers, told him that he identified the last person to talk to TM and she would give an interview.
I don’t trust Crump any more than other people, but I find it hard to imagine that he would commit perjury.
I don’t if he had a reasonable expectation that it would never be uncovered.
One theory that I have considered is that DeeDee was known to the family (to at least some extent) all along, but was reluctant to get involved.She was initially contacted by Tracy around 3/5 (when the SPD gave him the idea to look through his phone records) During the initial conversations she lied about her age (maybe out of shame because TM was younger, or maybe because she knew that an adult would have greater risks for legal repercussions than a minor), and made excuses for not attending the wake and/or funeral. Who KNOWS whether she had anything REAL to hide, or if she simply lied out of reflex. Some people just do it out of habit.
This was when Tracy and/or Sybrina begin pressuring her to come forward. But, (after talking to her Mom) she offers the letter to Sybrina as a substitute for actually talking to the police, and this was actually 3/11 (before the 911 tapes were released on 3/16). Sybrina then showed the letter to Crump, who told her to “save it for a rainy day” because he knew the wording of the letter was too weak, and did not want DeeDee questioned until the schemers had a chance to see what the investigation turned up, and had a chance to see if the SAO would charge George.
When no action was taken by the SAO she was again contacted by the family, and was manipulated to “embellish” her story with the new details learned over the week from 3/11 to 3/18 (when Tracy claims he first “discovered” her number). After being coached by Sybrina and/or Tracy with the new details, the family contacts Crump, and informs him that she is “ready”. VOILA, “Witness 8” was born!
By this time, Crump knew he had to get his reluctant ingenue “on the record”, so he conducted the interview by phone to give her the false sense of security generated by a perceived degree of anonymity. He realized that this would look “fishy” so he invited ABC there to provide the appearance of propriety. (this worked to a degree, but ABC was not willing to relinquish their recordings, which now creates a problem).
Now “DeeDee” is in over her head. Not only do the schemers have a signed statement from her, but they also have a recording of her that pretty much eliminates any possibility for her to deny what she said. And, her BIGGEST problem is: On 3/20 Crump made her existence (if not her identity) known to the authorities and EVERYONE in her circle of family and friends (including TM’s) has heard her voice on TV and knows who she is. The family has her by the “short hairs”, but she is afraid to lie directly to the investigators, so she tried to “dip out” on the 4/2 deposition.
THAT was foreseen by the schemers, and she was “reeled in” for her “command performance” in front of BDLR, despite the fact that she really did not want to.
Once in front of BDLR, she wanted to do TWO things: Try to keep her previous lies and precious secrets hidden, and to tell him whatever he wanted to hear so she could get the hell out of there! Now, mind you, Bernie had ALREADY been “set up” by the schemers, so he led her in the direction HE needed her to go, and was willing to accept ANYTHING that supported his agenda (as long as it was not blatantly obvious that she was lying on the recording). Before the recording was started he found out that she lied about her age to Sybrina, and recorded that in his WRITTEN report, but purposely did not ask her about it during the recorded statement. No need to give the defense any impeachment material before he could bluff his way through a plea offer.
Later, in August, questions about the “hospital visit” started to surface, so Corey had BDLR fly DeeDee to Jacksonville to get to the bottom of it. Knowing that she cannot get out of it, DeeDee cops to the second lie, but deflected some of the blame by using Sybrina’s presence as an excuse. (It is possible that she had already been told by someone that Bernie should NOT have taken the statement in Sybrina’s presence, and used that fact to put him on the defensive) Now, to their horror, they now discovered that she had lied under oath, but are still hopeful for a plea deal, so they “sat on” this juicy little tidbit.
So, DeeDee lied to Tracy and Sybrina about her age AND the hospital visit. Crump may have suspected something, or even learned about BOTH of the lies before the 4/2 deposition, but ran with the story ANYWAY because he had a layer of protection (Sybrina and/or Tracy) between himself and the lies, and it was PERFECT. Ditto for Sybrina. She may (or may not) have figured out the “distraught minor child hospital visit” was BS, but she could always blame DeeDee if it ever came out. Now, why did the cousin (Ronquavis) say he saw her at the funeral? Simple, he LIED because he wasn’t “in on the plan” and thought it would make more sense to say that she was there, since it would look suspicious if he said she wasn’t there.
Now, what remains are STILL the original questions:
Was anyone really on the phone with TM right before the struggle, or is the phone call somehow “faked”? (pick your favorite theory)
IF someone was on the phone with TM right before the struggle, was it really DeeDee? (pick a theory)
If it WAS DeeDee on the phone, did the call actually last until the time when GZ and TM actually spoke to each other?
IF DeeDee was actually on the phone with TM during that last call, how much of what she claims is true, and how much is just a lie that she made up, or was fed by someone else?
LetJusticePrevail:
You have a put a lot of time into this while expressing yourself very well so as of now, I am adapting your explanation to mine.
The only thing I challenge are the actual creator of the lies about the hospital and her age. Girls want to be older, not younger. She may not be very bright but surely, she knew that a visit to the hospital could be easily disputed. SHE DID “SOMETHING ELSE.”
There are too many theories out there, but yours is the most logical. Having said that you are now a member of my secret group of folks that I depend on for answers. FIVE STARS#####
True, teens “usually” want to be seen as older, until they get in trouble. The harsh realities of a delinquent lifestyle teaches them that being considered a “minor” in certain situations is better than being considered an adult. Particularly when the police might get involved, or the parents of a friend who got into trouble. She may have thought that TM’s parents would back off a little if they thought she was a minor. Trust me, even the dumbest kids know that they can hide behind the “you can’t do anything to me because I am a minor” line. Which makes me believe that she was knowledgeable about “something” that she knew (or believed) would put her at risk. Maybe she DID encourage him to confront George, or knew that he had done that very thing. Or maybe she had, like others suggested, heard some details on the news and decided to concoct a story that included a few little embellishments when she talked to Tracy or Sybrina, and was trying to use the “16 yr old minor” bit to get them to back off after she had already lied about what she heard in the phone call.
LJP
Great recap, I have one little correction for you, after March 30th, I can’t find evidence of anyone from the Scheme Team mentioning or referring to DD. They did not have to the media did it for them. Everything else you said is plausible based on the information we have. Great Job again.
Did w-8, who was a year or two older than TM, but perhaps in the same grade, not want to admit that she “stayed back” a year?
I really hope W-8 tells everything that she knows. She has her entire life ahead of her.
Assume that Sybrina met W-8 at 10AM. That’s one trip.
We also have to factor that at some point W-8 gave (in person?) Sybrina the statement, thus likely necessitating another trip.
Then everyone has to clear their calendars and get to the various locations? And Crump would have to arrange to fly from Tallahasse to Miami. (Although perhaps he was in Miami for some other reason).
Yup. What would you think that Tracy and Sybrina talked to W8 about? The weather?
I just had a thought. What if TMs’ first name is really spelled “Trevon” and we been lied to this whole time. That way everybody is searching criminal records for the wrong name
Unlikely, I think every other mention of the name is “Trayvon.”
A thorough investigation would resolve that possibility. Of course, the prosecution does not seem to have looked at the TM side of things.
i.e. by the TM side of things, I mean looking to test what is being said on behalf of TM.
No, there are court records of “Trayvon” as being listed as a witness in a traffic incident.
His DNA and prints could show up “elsewhere.” Maybe that would decrease unsolved crimes.
I’m still waiting for someone, anyone, to follow up on the stolen jewelry confiscated from ‘Trevon’…
All else aside, the owner of the wedding rings would probably like to get them back.
Maybe MOM will get the criminal records.
Link?
Reading the discussion about DD being in the hospital, and who lied about it first. I consider that one artile (IIRC Radar-on-line) said that after a bunch of test, she was released but told to avoid all stress. This fits in with Crump and his “she is a minor child” and she needs to be left alone.
Has anyone else considered that Bernie knows this case stinks all the way to the top. He would love to see it go away. So, he hands this letter over, blocks the release of discover, withholds exculpatory info like the star witness is a liar/not a minor. Maybe he is trying to hand a dismissal to the defense on a silver platter, but needs to fake all the outrage so he can keep his job. He is not stupid, he knows the state doesn’t have a case, but they wouldn’t dare drop the charges with the CRS breathing down their necks. If he wants to get his comfy pension that Angie keeps dangling like a carrot, he needs to play along. His last reponse was unlike anything we seen from him before, and he is begging for sanctions. I think he is fully aware that he is handing over stacks of stuff that will be going to the DCA once this farce of a trial is over.
I believe that BLDR thinks he has a solid case.
I agree.
No way, BDLR’s back is up against the wall. Mike McDaniel is particularly astute in his latest update describing BDLR collusion with Crump. BDLR incompetence is being exposed and it is increasing hard for the media to avoid reporting on it, this is why he is so angry.
I think BDLR is following the standard operating procedure of Corey’s prosecutors office and is mad as heck that it isn’t working out. He is confidant that it has worked like a charm before and is furious that a dogged defense is fighting back. He hates the internet. Paypal and discussion forums like this are messing up their protocol of overcharging, burning up and stripping the accused’s and their family’s assets, bullying the target of their ire and the targets attorneys, and meekly accepting whatever this prosecutor’s office chooses to dish out. By overdoing it with the media exposure, Crump has indirectly exposed Corey’s office and BDLR is furious.
Sadly, many prosecutors continue on their cases because they feel obligated at some point to continue. This is why a “referee” of some sort should be appointed, with powers similar to the DCA. Usually, public pressure and the release of disclosure solve that issue but not here.. NOT this one..
I do not doubt the CRS involvement but I would love to see some proof positive.
me too
I wish I’d seen your comment here before I posted this at Mike McDaniel’s Update 25:
Has anyone ever thought that perhaps de la Rionda is trying to get this case thrown out or (should a conviction occur) overturned on appeal? He’s not a stupid man, he MUST know that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder, but at the same time, the pressures on him are intense. He can’t simply drop the case, a case that should be dropped with a sincere apology to the accused, because the racial grievance machine would swing back into action immediately, and their ire would be directed at him and Corey if he did so. Instead, he has to plod ahead, knowing that he’s trying to convict an innocent man of murder. So, what is he to do? Perhaps his answer – the only answer he could find – was to be so marvelously over the top in his failure to perform his duties in terms of discovery that either (a) Judge Nelson might be required to throw out the entire statement of witness 8, which was the very BASIS for the charging affadavit (and possibly requiring the charging affadavit to be thrown out and the charges dismissed, or (2) the DCA would overturn any potential conviction and order a new trial, which could be handed off to another prosecutor or dropped altogether.
He knows what is now public knowledge. The options to save himself are becoming very limited. He can point the finger to Angela Corey and claim that he was only following orders (ala Nuremberg), or point the finger at Crump and claim he was lied to from the beginning about the “facts” of the case (ala Nifong). I think the reasoning behind Angela Corey upgrading her and BDLR’s pension is important. I think they both may be looking into early retirement.
there is a facebook page under trevon martin and there is a picture of him, the one of him with the “grill.”
anybody confirm this?
It’s a hoax, the page was made on March 10, 2012
Would this not suggest that W8’s written letter/statement was in the possession of the Martin family and their lawyers, prior to March 19th, 2012, prior to her alleged discovery on March 17th and prior to the release by the police of material related to their then on-going investigations?
It’s a hoax in my comment above refers to a facebook page created on March 10th last year in the name of Trevon Martin.
As to comment found on Saturday (17th), according the Mr. Crump’s press release W8 was “discovered” late on the evening of Sunday, March 18th. With all they accomplished in the next 18 hours, I think it’s very likely she was actually “discovered” earlier then the claim.
From the Presser on March 20th, Crump said…
“We took another step in this — what has been a daily journey for the past three and a half weeks. Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening, was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon’s password. And he looked on it, and he saw who the last person was that Trayvon Martin talked to while he was alive.
He [Tracy] called me late Sunday night and told me that he had called the young lady, and he told me, and I was just utterly shocked when he told me the time that they talked.”
Transcript of entire live presser here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html
“Trayvon was always on the phone”
Within 24hrs of the incident, they would’ve desperately wanted to know if Martin was talking to anyone at the time of the shooting.
They knew long before the 18th.
They just needed a platform for the scam, it was the NEN call.
+1
You’re exactly right. They knew who Trayvon was on the phone with. What they didn’t know were the details of the incident that needed to be filled in so that the story would sound believable and reasonably lined up with fact. The fact that the story is made up from details like the NEN call and media reports is evident in W8’s statement – she says “iced tea” and she also says that “Trevon” was going to the cornerstore and wanted to get back to watch the 2nd half of the game. We know both of those supposed (then) facts to be inaccurate, but at the time she made her statement, that’s when the rallies were happening with people dressed in hoodies carrying cans of Arizona Iced Tea and bags of Skittles. That was all the information we knew until the discovery started and we saw the actual inventory, and the timeline of events showed that the NBA All-Star game hadn’t even started when Treyvon was killed.
Please take a user name if you want to be head.
i just found it on the internet. just typed trevon martin and it came up. there is no info on it that i can see. also, there is facebook page with trayvon martin i guess someone is using it to post things.
marlene
First time I have seen this Mike Tyson on George Zimmerman: ‘It’s a disgrace he hasn’t been shot yet’ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mike-tyson-trayvon-martin-case-disgrace-george-zimmerman-221115400.html
Just thought I would mention that the latest issue the dogpound is back at is the bloody photos of GZ’s face. They are comparing the bloodied photo to the photo taken five hours later at the police station. I don’t have it handy, but I’m sure you’ve seen the one from the police station. This step back to the photos leads me to believe that the Trayvonites can see the writing on the wall with DD, so they are dropping that and moving on to what they think is the next sure thing that defense cannot explain. Who is it exactly they think photoshopped the photo? Certainly, they cannot think it was the defense. So I would imagine they think it was George in cohoots with the SFD? It certainly seems Robert has them rattled on the DD story. Just keeping my finger on the pulse of the other side, and giving my take … for what it’s worth. Watching the other side react is quite useful. They do private message each other, and no matter how they try to keep agenda hidden, sooner or later they show their hand. All you have to do is skim the tweets and you get a real good feel of what the prosecution going to be pounding on. Don’t forget they are very close there to NatJack.
For reasons I don’t understand, they include me in on their twitter conversations every now and again. Today they spewed a lot of hate my way and then seemed to forget they had me in on their conversation. They think we are going to get a rude awakening when George’s phone, email and texts are revealed in June.
I remember some speculation by Justice for Trayvon tweeters that implied the state had copies of emails written by George Zimmerman that contained racist language in them. Who they were allegedly sent to, I don’t know. It was back around the time of one of the bail hearings.
What I got from the hints at the time, was that George may have said some nasty (NOT racist) things about people like Al Sharpton. And if so… good for him!
This is true and the comments were about Tracy’s were in regards to his poor fathering.
I recall some noise about an email sent to Tracy. I think the source of this latest hope is seeing the defense motion to get the telephone information of George and Shellie from the State. Some hope that this is where the evidence lies that will help the State.
Sadly, I think the State brought charges against someone who has no evidence against him and has lots to support his claim of self defense.
Now the State wants to impede the defense in proving this suspicion and save careers. Once there is an airing of the evidence and the population sees that it is likely the teen attacked George everyone can move on.
The trouble is, they trampled all over George’s civil rights. Ironically, this whole thing was started by civil rights lawyers.
If the defense doesn’t get the time to expose this, the abuse of power we witnessed in this case will repeat.
Really I would not be suprised considering RZJ recent twitter and media fiasco and the families close ties to CTH. Sorry, just not a fan of two negative racial narratives attempting a positive. But to each their own.
My therory with W8 letter is that she was asked by Trayvons parents to write out what happened so they could have closure after she refused to cooperate. Even Matt Gutman spoke with her privetly the week of the interview with Crump.
W8 was not initially cooperative. I believe this is why she and her family lied about being a minor, and avoided the wake and funeral. When that did not work W–8s written letter to Sybrina was used as a coersive tactic to prove she did talk to Trayvon that night. Remember the phone records could not prove it was really her. Her phone was prepaid. No subscriber info.
w8 never expected to be involved, does not want to be involved, and is being forced into an untrue narrative by many. She does not know anything other then what she thought was a fight. In fact if she is placed on the stand she is better use to GZ then the State
Quite odd that BDLR didn’t reference her written statement in his interview on April 2nd.
Well, wasnt it Atty. Jackson who publicy announced that the Scheme Team hired a PI? Wasnt it Sybrina who in court docs. states she knew about w8 in March? Wasnt it Tracy who said he found w8and called her on March 18th, a day before the phone interview with w8? Corey was appointed March 22. Lee stepped down this day as well. Three days after Wolfinger stepped down. Uhrig & Sonner stepped down April 11th. Nine days after BDLR was assigned by Corey. I find it hard to believe between the 18th -22 of March all a PI was hired, found w8, Tracy talked to w8, informed Crump, Crump set up an interview which included Matt Gutman in less then 24 hr. Then 4 days later these people stepped down, were reassigned, fired, and hired. Then all the sudden within 7 buisness cays w8 is sitting in front of BDLR without him knowing about this letter. These people were after an arrest and why BDLR would not have used it during a bail hearing is odd.
So we are being asked to believe that Tracy “discovered” W8 late in the evening of Sunday, March 18th and he called Crump. On Monday Morning (19th), Crump and Sybrina did the Today Show interview, http://www.today.com/id/46781618/ns/today-today_people/#.UVeQBmlzZjr
Then at 9:00 a.m. they filed to cancel their suit to get the calls released, http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=2012CA001276 Then Tracy and Sybrina met with W8 and was given a written statement. W8 filled in the parents of what was said and Mr. Crump reminds the witness of this during his interview later that day.
In the evening Crump and Tracy did Al Sharpton’s show interview http://www.mediaite.com/tv/al-sharpton-interviews-trayvon-martins-father-in-emotionally-gripping-segment/ and they did the telephonic interview with W8 that night with ABC present as well as others…March 19th Audio Interview: http://youtu.be/OxXvVTVZpI0 Transcript to March 19th, Interview: http://sdrv.ms/WD0AVX , plus an interview with Tracy and Matt Gutman who were both present at the telephonic interview http://imgur.com/SnlrrSw It appears ABC has taken this interview offline.
Now that’s a full day!
Did we ever get a STRAIGHT no bull answer on where the earbuds were when the the medics/cops came to the scene? Also, if she was on the phone with him as he went to the store, why the break in conversation? He was not on the phone until some point during his purchase, where he says ‘hello’ – then, magically, 3 stooges arrive and he awaits them to buy their ‘cookies’.
This story was crafted with the assumption (or, worse, without the thought of the possibility that) there would be no 711 video to incriminate him where we realize, he was there for a reason. Or, they did know something was up and that’s why they didn’t talk about his lighter. And why ‘booby’ didn’t talk about how he was with Tray the night before and how he got “High A.F”.
On Monday, March 5th Tracy is asked for pin number so detective could access his sons cellphone. He declined stating he would have to consult his atty. Obviously the phone had some signifigance early on to police but they were denied access & suprise, did not have access to those records until April 2nd through a search warrant.
Tracy said he looked all his phone records up online Sunday, March 18th. But they only produced incoming and out going calls with time stamp and phone numbers. There are mixed accounts of what happened next. Crump says Tracy called w8 but did not discuss her and Trayvons conversations, but told w8 his atty would call. But w8 says she found out she was the last person Trayvon spoke to. Crumps says Tracy called and told him w8 talked to Trayvon pretty much the whole day. Crump claims he never spoke to w8 until his interview w her the next day. Sybrina says she just heard about it.
So. Lets stop right here.
Fine. So what compelled w8 to write that letter coincedentially on the day after she was told she was the last one to speak with Trayvon, and also on the same day of her interview with Crump? Apparentley by Tracy & Crumps accounts they did not compel her to write it because they never questioned her yet, Sybrina by her accounts did not talk to w8.
The police department was already believing GZs account, and Wolfinger as well, & nobody else knew about this yet.
Moving on…..
Tracy finds out about w8 on the 18th. By the 19th Crump is interviewing without even confirming who this person is? Okay.
But…..
Friday,March 16th Serino plays the NEN tape concerning the help scream for Tracy during an interview.
The 16th was also the day Martin family contacted Eric Holder to get the FBI involved. Sunday, March 18th Tracy finds w8 gem. Monday, March 19th interview w/ Crump & Crew.
And also…. on Monday, March 19th Crump goes public with W8 & Holder opens a Federal investigation. If this “letter” was available then, Crump at least made it available to the FBI and they had it before BDLR prior to was still in the midst of their famous “independent” investigation ? BDLRs April 2nd interview then happened with w8.
Why? Oh. Because that coincidentally was the same day they got a search warrant for w8s phone records.
As last as March 28th Pam Bondi stated w8 would not cooperate.
So the “letter” for Sybrinas closure that was requested by someone who was aware w8 exsisted & needed for the arrest was pulled out and W8 was threatened with legal recourse. That letter was the ticket to probrable cause which lead to the April 9th decision not to go to grand jury. And the April 11th to a 2nd degree murder charge. That is why the letter was never mentioned in the states interview with w8.
Prosecutors threaten witnesses all the time w/ perjury. It sure seems to be a narrative and a fact with BDLR ie; Shellie Zimmerman. But unless something like a statement is signed or under then it is your word against an officer, detective, prosecutor etc. But if there is a signed statement especially in your own handwriting you then are the bearer to prove you signed it under duress.
Crump needed that letter for leverage. And IMO he got it somehow by having w8 do it for the parents “closure”.
The only “closure” that will satisfy Crump, Sybrina and Tracy will be seeing very large dollar amounts deposited in their bank accounts.
If I’m not mistaken, Wolfinger and Lee both stepped aside on the same day.
Bondi announced the appointment of Corey on about March 22, 2012. She included in that presser that a witness was not co-operating.
“Prosecutors threaten witnesses all the time w/ perjury. It sure seems to be a narrative and a fact with BDLR ie; Shellie Zimmerman. But unless something like a statement is signed or under then it is your word against an officer, detective, prosecutor etc. But if there is a signed statement especially in your own handwriting you then are the bearer to prove you signed it under duress.”
Huh? PLease explain.
BDLR received the W8 phone records on the day of the interview, according to his interview with her. It is unlikely that the state just signed a search warrant on the same day.
Please define what you mean by “closure?”
DD provides a so-called letter to Sybrina and then is threatened by those that made her write the letter with legal recourse? Do I understand that correctly?
Dumb Dumb wasn’t the only one coached by the schemers…..go back and listen to johns interview with baldy,Baldy was working hard asking w6 john bizarre leading questions such as “did you hear the sound of punches” and “did you hear the sound of a head hitting the sidewalk (as if what that sounds like is common knowledge)” to try to lead john away from what he saw because he is such a damaging witness to the prosecution.
I believe the letter disclosed to the defense on March 13th (according to O’Mara) in Friday’s Sentinel article posted above is what prompted him to write the motion to sanction the defense. That was written on March 25th. He already had lots of material about the issues surrounding W8 and he used them in his argument in the motion. Mr. O’Mara didn’t mention this letter in his filing.
He told the reporter he filed the motion and asked to be reimbursed for wasted time because he wants the State to stop withholding evidence in the case.
Unbeknownst to the court or public, another piece of evidence that was withheld for a year had been uncovered on March 13th….the statement W8 wrote over a year ago.
The Supplemental to “formally” disclose this to the Defense wasn’t prepared by Bernie until March 27th. So officially, the defense got the letter “after” W8’s deposition.
Is that why Bernie included it in his response? Is he trying to get out in front of yet another example of the State withholding evidence?
**prompted him to write a motion to sanction the State.
I believe the letter was with held. But the sanction motions filed have to do with the MOMs depo of w8 revealing that she did not go to the hopsital,as welll as other material evidence the State has not turned over or has delayed in turning over. The sanctions have to do with not following Brady rules. The Defense by law does not have to go on a wild goose chase for evidence that is material to the case, ever! It is not up to the State to decide what IS or is not material. I mean they can but……The court decides if the defense raises an objection if theybtry to introduce it during trial! If the State conducts even their own investigation through a 3rd party the results must be revealved prior to trial. Florida even requires depos prior to a trial to avoid suprises to any counsel during trial. When everyone follows the rules it gives a defendant a very fair trial!
When,not if, MOM brings this letter with holding to the courts attention I am going to assume they will respond the same way as they did about not revealing the fact w8 lied about getting medical care. They will claim the letter is not material, because the witness statements about that night have been consistent.
But, if it is not material then why did BDLR introduce the letter in response to that type of motion by the defense? Why does tbe State have the letter at all? What use is it to anyone if it was written to Sybrina on the same day Crump recorded an interview?
Hummmm. Someone is going under a bus here in the Scheme Team.
On the facts of trying to depos Crump? It would be best to be able to do that of course. But not nessessary for GZs immunity or aquittal. Most of w8s testimony will be hearsay and not allowed or she will be impeached.
Interesting to note as well, BDLR redacted the letter from the supplemental discovery filed with the court on March 27th. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/states_13_redacted.pdf
Then for reasons I don’t get, he included it in Exhibit B of his response to sanctions, which was dated the next day, March 28th. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/response_to_sanctions.pdf
The trial court rules on this stuff. They can rule any which way they want. Regardless of rules or law.
Then I don’t hold out much hope for the Judge to rule using the law. She canceled a scheduled hearing without consulting the defense, she denied a motion to reconsider with no explanation or hearing. I see no reason for her to change course now. This is about getting it to trial, saving careers and moving on.
Found this Nettles18:
A Fair Trial Remedy for Brady Violations Elizabeth Napier Dewar 115 YALE L.J. 1450 (2006)This Note proposes a new remedy for criminal defendants when the government fails to fulfill its constitutional duty to disclose favorable evidence. When evidence that should have been disclosed earlier emerges during or shortly before trial, the court should consider instructing the jury on the duty to disclose and allowing the defendant to argue that the failure to disclose raises a reasonable doubt about the defendant’s guilt. Even if rarely granted, this remedy could prevent violations by encouraging prosecutorial vigilance.
Ie; A Brady motion is a defendant’s request for evidence concerning a material witness which is favorable to the defense and to which the defense may be entitled. Favorable evidence includes not only evidence that tends to exculpate the accused, but also evidence that may impeach the credibility of a government witness. A Brady violation occurs where the failure to disclose evidence to the defense deprives the defendant of a fair trial
From my understanding a conviction can be over turned if such a violation occurs.
Other than date on the letter, what proof is there that it was written on that date? That letter could have been written just days before it was handed over … no?
Perhaps this is the grounds they need to motion to depose BDLR?
O’Steen was there as BDLR was interviewing DD, he is covered. As long as there is a way to obtain the information in the judges mind from other sources no opposing counsel will be deposed.
I agree.
Nettles, do you know who Grace Zimmerman is?
She is George and Robert’s half-sister.
Did you see Papa’s latest video? In it he is implicating Grace, by alluding that she saw TM at her complex and called GZ.
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2013/03/31/we-can-ask-questions-cant-we-llmspapa-once-again-zimmerman-has-some-explaining-to-do/
Garbage. Period
No doubt, but trying to involve other members of the family, another low for the TM supporters. All to justify the trespassing of TM.
“All to justify the trespassing of TM. ”
Where was he trespassing?
The neighborhood just west of the one in which he was staying?
unitron
Same idiots posting this gem:
SouthernGirl2 permalink
March 31, 2013 5:43 pm
@stateoftheinternet
DeeDee’s letter is devastating for Zimmerman and the CTH know it. This is why they’re shook.
I don’t know about WE @ the CTH, but I’m shook. I’m shook up that noboby seamd to notice that in her letter she states that Trayvon tried to goad Georgie into following him TWICE! Why would Trayvon do that? I believe that it shows intent on the part of Trayvon to attack George.
“He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn’t follow him. Then he said the man didn’t follow him again. Then he looked back and saw the man again.”
I saw your comment on the Sentinel article Ejarra. Great point!
“He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn’t follow him. Then he said the man didn’t follow him again. Then he looked back and saw the man again.”
Of course, I don’t know the answer – but my impression wasn’t one of goading. I think it’s easily misread because of DeeDee’s poor English skills. I think she might have meant that TM looked for shortcut (only traveled by foot) because then “the man” (in the car) COULD not follow, or WOULD not be ABLE to follow. And it seems the man did NOT follow – until he appeared on foot, as well.
My guess is that this letter is based partly on Crump’s narrative, which he based in turn partly on George’s statement.
I do think that there was some goading going on, though – when TM was walking, then skipped then ran around the corner, seemingly enticing George to get out of car to follow into TM’s trap….
Yes. I was included in on their twitter conversation yesterday. They have high-hopes for the phone records the defense just motioned to compel the State to produce. They hope the State is holding on to these because this is really where the hard evidence is that is going to convict George.
They need to make up their minds. One minute George is estranged from his family and the next minute they are conspiring to find teens abandoned in the City by irresponsible parents. Victim-like teens.
I am still trying to comprehend their connection did Grace call GZ and he came over to watch TM, and following all the way to the RTL. Or did she just gave him a heads up someone might be coming your way, or what it is the he is claiming.
If you try to figure this out please let me express mail you copious amounts of aspirin. You are going to have headaches.
I tried, but I gave up. Life gives me enough headaches without me actively looking for more.
Anyway for us to check the claim that the sister was living in Colonial Village and called George that evening? In any case, it does raise an interesting issue. I can’t think of a reason that DeeDee would say that Trayvon went into another complex unless she actually heard it from Trayvon. I doubt that there was speculation that Trayvon’s route went through the ungated Colonial Village at the time of her letter and interviews. Could it really be that the thing that infuriated Trayvon so much was being followed from Colonial Village into TRATL by George in his vehicle? I don’t think this effects the self defense issue but it would explain a few things about the situation.
I suppose the other possibility is that Tracy knew that Trayvon took the shortcut through Colonial Village and fed it to DeeDee.
Rick there is no way for GZ to follow TM, directly from inside the complex into RTL. GZ would have had to drive out of the Complex and drive around and into RTL. The camera would have caught GZ driving into the RTL.
That is a good point Bori. I know the clubhouse videos are part of discovery and DIWM has them online. Has anybody looked at the front gate videos?
I am not sure if they were released, but the one’s from the other complexes were, his truck would show up in any of them.
I now found out that in his original interview with Singleton, GZ said that videos at the front gate weren’t working. It is confirmed in the first long discovery from FDLE. Since Colonial Towers doesn’t have a gate, I don’t know about what videos from that source would reveal. The defense has has subpoenaed video from Lake Edge Apartments. Of course GPS data rules here, if it exists.
Trademark told DeeDee that he spotted George in the Retreats complex. He did not say he was followed from one complex to another. This is in total agreement with George’s account.
I believe that what was trying to be done. But it appears MOM may just have to file other violations, sanctions, and impeach w8 and others involved with this on the stand. Unless, the court instuctions the jury about the Brady issue.
Minpin:
“Closure”
As in it being represented to w8 as being something the family needed to mourn and heal. If my memory is correct the SPD announced they would not arrest GZ and were handing the case to Wolfinger pretty close to the Schemers finding w8.
@ W8 providing a letter to Sybrina: Was it to Sybrina? Was the letter used to trap her into a narrative so she could not back out, to cooperate, and her story could not change without facing lets say perjury or contempt?
If nobody from the Scheme Team compelled her to write it, (by their accounts) then what compelled her to write the letter a day after she was contacted by Tracy and Crump, and on the same day of the Crump interview? I mean the letter was hardly heartfelt. The letter was unnessessary to write to someone ON THE DAY of an interview with Sybrina IN THE ROOM. And how was this letter delievered if the interview was over the phone?
Does not make sense.
To your last questions. Yes. IMO
As for the warrant, my apologies. You are correct.
So I read a little bleep from a poster saying that there may be talks of an acquittal for GZ in the works, and that possibly there may be planning on how to control the “Ima gonna riot” crowd if that event does occur. I am not saying there is any proof that this is in the works, it was just a bleep from someone who said the info. came from a reliable source.
Nelson, with no reasoning, denies the motion for reconsideration to depose Crump. Nelson, with no reason, and no discussion with the defense, cancels the April 2 (tomorrow) hearing. She rescheduled the hearing for a full month later. If I understand correctly, the judge would have no choice but to grant an impeachment of W8 from the defense if they requested that. There is a proven recorded admission of lying from the star witness. She seems to imply possible intimidation by Sybrina Fulton, sitting right next to her in the BDLR under oath interview, which the defense correctly finds astounding, and to be witness tampering? The victim’s family attorneys I believe were also present, as BDLR mentions in the interview that Crump had been there earlier or some such. Without W8, aka DD, the state has less than no case. There may be more evidence learned by the defense in the depos. in addition to the lies and the letter. There is no question in my mind that the defense would certainly have asked DD about her phone and the phone records.
For the state to go forward with a trial, with no star witness, and with Gilbreath already having admitted they have no proof that GZ didn’t turn to go back to his truck, when he was attacked. He also admitted that there is no proof of who threw the first punch. What is left to warrant the state going forward with expensive expert witnesses, trial costs, attorney costs, prosecutor costs, and all of the other costs associated with a trial that is at the taxpayer’s expense? Was Bernie’s written tirade an admission that the gig just may be up?
I was out of touch. Did the defense have the letter when they deposed DD or was the state hiding it? If they did not have it they might need to do another depo and make Corey pay the bills.
The defense got the letter on March 13th. It’s unclear who they got it from. “In an interview with the Orlando Sentinel on Friday, defense attorney Mark O’Mara said he received the new letter March 13, the day he deposed Witness 8 in South Florida.” “I’m glad I have it now. I don’t know when (the state) received it,” O’Mara said, adding prosecutors would not say when they did.”
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-03-29/news/os-trayvon-martin-girlfriend-letter-20130329_1_trayvon-martin-de-la-rionda-george-zimmerman
BDLR says the defense was provided a copy on March 15th (the date of Sybrina’s deposition) and he redacted it in the 13th Supplemental filed with the court on March 27th. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/states_13_redacted.pdf
I don’t know Howie. Nettles has posted that O’Mara told a reporter that he received the letter on March 13, but I don’t know if it was before or after the DD depo. I also don’t know who gave the copy of the letter to O’Mara. Did DD bring a copy of the letter with her? Did DD tell O’Mara about the letter she wrote and gave Sybrina as BDLR was sitting in the same room hearing that, and then have his office send over a copy of the letter which he then gave to O’Mara? I don’t know how or when O’Mara was given the copy, but I would find it hard to believe that BDLR just offered it up after holding it for more than a year. I think DD must have mentioned it to O’Mara during questioning, and the cat was out of the bag at that point.
As much as the state would be committing suicide in putting DD on the stand in a trial, I would bet big time that DD doesn’t want anything to do with the trial. She may be saying what she is now in order to get out of it sooner rather than later. DD want’s gone.
Maybe DD=Double Depo. I was reading the defense statement about the extraordinary circumstances of the arrest and trial. There is no way on Earth GZ could get a fair trial. Any Black juror would be under extreme duress from the “community.” Politicians and special interests have stakes in it all. I hope someone puts a stop to this nonsense soon.
I hope DeeDee and her mother have some good sense to ask for a big payout for all of their troubles, and if no payout can be made then they should call Oprah or Katie or Barbara or someone with a nationally-broadcast TV show who can do a sweet tell-all interview.
I am unclear on that point, I think that BDLR says he gave to the Defense the same day of the deposition, not clear if before or after.
Did I see something about the state causing a five hour or so delay in the DD Depo? I wonder if they had to go round her up again? Like they did for her formal interview. Maybe she was not sober enough? I can see them force feeding her Coffee. Five hours at 800 per hour? Pay up Corey!
BDLR refused to have the Deposition get videotape, even though MOM had sent to prior notices, in accordance with the law, the they planned to videotape the Depo.
Apparently, BDLR got his way as that first day of the Deposition was not videotape. Unclear, if the second part was.
DD was in fact there Howie. It was to begin at 9 AM. As Bori said, the state had gotten documentation that the defense was going to videotape the depos. Shortly after 9, the defense was on the phone to the judge to have her tell BDLR to stop the antics, so to speak. The defense, from what I understand, never did hear back from the judge, so they went with an audio recording. The depo. supposedly only lasted a short time that day. The depo. was to be continued on another day. I am unsure if any further depo. of DD was ever conducted. I don’t think that info. has been released. Because BDLR wouldn’t allow videotaping, I am unclear whether the next two days of depos. were done with Tracy, Sybrina and Ronquavis. Does anyone have that information? It appears that the judge never ruled on the videotaping, which I understand is fully legal.
Then he should pay all the expenses incurred by the defense. The subpoena looks like it says it will be videotaped. This is just another smokescreen. They look like they are playing hide the witness and hide the evidence. Too bad the court is letting em get away with it.
According to the State’s 13th Supplemental Discovery, they gave the defense a copy of the letter 2 days after O’Mara got a copy. Note BDLR redacts the letter from this filing but includes it in his next filing. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/states_13_redacted.pdf
The excuse that BDLR is using is the same thing that happened with GZ and the passport and PayPal, they disclosed before it was discovered, but for BDLR that is Okay for the Defense it is a crime
Even the Judge didn’t know what to do with the donation account. I agree with Mike McDaniel’s statement at the Stately Manor, the response from BDLR was mostly red meat for the followers. Sadly, BDLR doesn’t need to make legal arguments supported with evidence of fact, the Judge will protect him.
Sadly, you are right, I totally agree. If the issue was so bad the Judge himself could have sanction MOM, he did not need BDLR to do it him. Shellie on the other hand it would be up to the Prosecutor.
“Even the Judge didn’t know what to do with the donation account.”
Didn’t Lester say that he was going to look into the type of funds, as you said, he didn’t know if he had any jurisdicttion over those funds. He never did put out a ruling on the funds, or how or why he did have jurisdiction of the money, he just threw GZ back in jail. I don’t believe that anyone before had raised such an amount in internet donations for legal fees or living expenses. I believe GZ was the first. It should have been a message to the judge that so many supported GZ as having acted in self defense, but Crump and Co. turned it into sending money to a murderer.
Red meat indeed. That whole pay pal fiasco got Lester ditched least not let anyone forget.
I would be surprised if MOM/West didn’t ask DD if she had given any other statements, or talked about her testimony with anyone other than the Crump and BDLR interviews. DD may have said that she gave Sybrina, or someone a written statement, which BDLR may be calling a letter. I just can’t imagine BDLR walking into the depo. and handing the defense a written statement of what she heard, after holding it for a year, if he didn’t believe it would be found by the defense in some manner.
I agree, I am convinced that if he could have kept the letter hidden he would have.
I agree. It’s likely and consistent with how the State turns over evidence to the defense. Wait to be found out and give it to the defense just before the next court hearing.
Sybrina’s deposition was March 15th and the State may have provided the defense a copy at that time. The defense likely asked her when and who she gave the statement to. She said Crump back in March 2012. She doesn’t know how the State got it. Mr. O’Mara told the reporter at the Sentinel the State wouldn’t reveal how or when they got the letter. Isn’t there suppose to be a chain of custody on this sort of thing?
Nettles- Do you think that the defense may just have found out about the letter on March 13, during DD’s depo, but got the actual copy of it on March 15? Suppose DD gave O’Mara a copy of the letter, but the state just made it formal by giving him another copy on March 15. I am pretty convinced that DD wants to run from this whole thing like the plague. She has been the one being slammed in the news as a liar, and an idiot from her recorded interviews. There has been much talk about her remaining unidentified, which BDLR even stated in his written tirade. Perhaps DD believes she can walk away from the whole thing if she tells at least some of the truth, or more. I don’t believe she would suffer much if any punishment for coming clean before this goes any further. The state can’t threaten her for telling the truth.
I don’t think that DD would have kept a copy of the letter. I do think that BDLR is playing hardball with her, where she either testifies or could face perjury charges, and not knowing if she has any priors, there might be more leverage there, that we don’t know about. It may also explain why BDLR is so adamant about keeping her secret.
Bori- I personally believe that if DD had any priors, that would be known by the defense, especially now that the defense knows her identity. I also personally believe that BDLR doesn’t have any leverage with DD, or she wouldn’t have spilled the beans that she already has. I honestly and truly believe that DD wants out of all of this, and will do whatever it takes to get out of it, including implicating the state and Crump and Sybrina.
I hope your are right, she could have refused to participate, do you think that the prosecution would have subpoena her? Remember the Defense only had her name, no address and possible age. It would have been difficult for them to find her.
Bori, you just can’t win tonight. First nettles18 disagrees with you earlier, now it’s me. A good PI would have been able to find her regardless of the obstacles. They knew her name, the general area that she lived in, the schools she probably attended, and her age. The problem they had was money. They had to weigh the cost vs outcome, but it could have been done most likely in a couple of days.
On to the discussion you and nettles18 was having earlier. I tend to side more with you in that he could have been more enthusiastic about George’s innocence. Instead of saying, “George believes he’s not guilty.” It would have been better to say, “Based on the evidence at hand, it appears that George is innocent.” Not what his first 2 lawyers said, but still better than what he did say. And by saying “evidence at hand” it gives him an out; just in case.
One out of two ain’t that bad. Now it is my time to disagree, you are looking for a young person who may or may not have much of a paper trail. Some family members, have said they just met her at the funeral. Yes, it is possible but very difficult, under the circumstances.
Even with all the talk recently about Dee Dee, as if she might be “for real”, I still have lots of doubts. I still believe she (the “talking to Trayvon just before he died” she) may wind up being a total fabrication, from start to finish.
Jello, the more I hear the more I am sharing those thoughts.
Right now I am thinking that there one DD talking about one event, while the other is talking about a similar but completely different event.
She would have been a minor at the time she had priors, that wouldn’t factor in as she turned into an adult.
That is not exactly true, depending on the charges and the deal with the prosecution, and considering how close she could have been until turning into an adult, any acts could have consequences as she becomes an adult.
If I had to guess that is the way I’d go. W8 told the defense about the written statement on March 13th and the State gave the defense a copy of it two days later when Sybrina was deposed. The defense could have asked Sybrina how the State got the statement and if she didn’t know, if she answered I gave it to Mr. Crump (as Crump is sitting right there), the judge has ensured Mr. Crump doesn’t have to answer. Nor does the State. What a wonderful system this is. (sarcasm just in case that didn’t come across 😉
Of course the have to formally put it into evidence and did so in the filing of the 13th Supplemental. I don’t understand why BDLR chose to redact the entire letter in the filing of the discovery. He apparently changed his mind the next day and did include a redacted copy as Exhibit B in his March 28th response. Perhaps he didn’t want the defense making the news about the statement, he wanted it to come from the State.
I’m sure you’re right. It was his last chance, it had to come from him directly. And it was still pathetically weak. I’m still laughing about “Trevon”.
Maybe Dee Dee was trying to pull a Crump. When he wanted to convince the Defense that his little “affidavit” should be good enough… the Defense should just accept that in lieu of live questioning. Bernie gives the Dee Dee “letter” to MOM just before the depo. “Here ya go. Here’s everything Dee Dee knows, in her own words. No need to question her further. We can all just go home now, ok?”
That funny Jello, especially in that that despite all the prior coaching, it didn’t work out quite that way. . DD tells the defense that she lied because Sybrina was there or present. She felt obligated. DD tells the defense that she owned up to the hospital lie a whole long time ago. Bernie is sitting there thinking, please Lord God in Heaven, make this person shut up. Bernie was likely thinking the same during his interview with her. Please, someone wake me up from this nightmare.
DD has been protected from the get go because no one, and I mean no one, ever knew what she would say next. DD was a ticking time bomb to Crump, Nat Jac, Bernie and everyone involved in the prosecution. DD served her purpose in the interviews, only barely. When push came to shove, there was no there there. But apparently the defense found a way to get the no there there exposed. No wonder BDLR didn’t want the depo. videotaped.
Hi Pine – I think you are on to something. Delay of hearing – with no warning? That is not reasonable. If DeeDee’s second deposition shows severe inconsistency with her voice statement – she is “toast” as a witness. Further, the PCA document is completely based on the lies that DeeDee stated. As soon as the STATE offers to acquit – O’mara need to demand an “Immunity ruling from Judge Nelson. Further, the State of Florida needs to pay George for all his loss of employment – because of the lies that Crump/DeeDee told to commit this FRAUD.
Wait.. Where did you see this?
So I read a little bleep from a poster saying that there may be talks of an acquittal for GZ in the works,
Just a thought. If this goes to trial, DD can be forced by subpoena to take the witness stand by the defense. They can impeach her as having lied, and owning up to those lies in the depo. GZ walks free because of the star witness having lied. DD looks like the one that lost the state’s case, and not having aided in Justice for Trayvon. DD becomes the scapegoat for GZ walking free after a jury acquits him. To date, no one, including the judge wants to be seen as the one who frees GZ. DD’s family, or someone who has her best interest at heart, may be advising her, while not representing her out of fear of retribution.
Once all the facts get laid out in a non-emotional way, it’s fairly easy to see why George Zimmerman will be acquitted. I think the State will be blamed for laying charges on such weak evidence. As it should be.
Recall the headlines after the State released its first round of discovery with what arguably should have been their most powerful evidence. Headlines asked “Should charges in the George Zimmerman Case be dropped?”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-case-charges-dropped/story?id=16392466#.UVoWEmlzbIU
Nettles,
This is one of the reasons MOM gets so much grief, from the report MOM echoing Corey;
“[It is] way too early to tell,” he said. “That’s me not only commenting on evidence, but the weight of all the evidence. And I don’t even have all the evidence.”
It is statements like this where MOM forgot he was the defense attorney and a TV analyst that people found grating. It really does not matter if your client is guilty as sin and you it, you don’t say it. NO, I am not trying to start a for or against MOM conversation, I am just pointing out it was MOM’s own words that were problematic.
On a completely separate note, notice how Gutman is still hoping that the new evidence would be sufficient.
I understand why some would feel that way about Mr. O’Mara. I didn’t. Mr. O’Mara had 40% of the discovery at that point. In 30 years of practise I’m sure he learned not to say what he wasn’t confident in. Statements made without the facts usually come back to bite one in the behind.
I watched the 2 lawyers before April 11th say vehemently that GZ was innocent. All well and good and everything but a critical thinker will tell you they can’t possibly know that yet. They hadn’t seen the evidence against their client. So I tended to not give their statements a whole lot of weight. If they came across to me as not believable how can I believe other statements they make later? Like, yes now we’ve seen the evidence and for sure our client isn’t guilty! But you said that before you saw anything. How can I trust this?
Mr. O’Mara comes out looking more credible that he waited and saw first what was against him and his client. As time wore on he became bolder in his comments about this case ending in acquittal and these charges being brought about by reasons other than the facts of the case.
On the separate note I still see in Gutman’s reporting a spin against George. He wasn’t a critical thinking reporter and he had a great opportunity to expose the lies he must have seen (there was so many contradictions by the family and Crump). Instead, Matt chose his emotional response to the story rather than his investigative training and as will usually be the case, emotional decisions are usually not accurate. Matt still fights hard to try to spin the outcome to show he chose the right side.
Gutman saying wait to the rest of the evidence comes out, was sounding like any other TM supporter.
As for MOM, we will have to agree to disagree, MOM’s credibility was not at stake, it was his client. By sounding doubtful it fed into the frenzy that was going on at that time. He could have said the same thing in a way that was more supportive of his client and did not give the impression that he doubted GZ. He has done much, much better recently, and I will give credit for that. IMO his lack of proper advocacy helped to prolong this circus. Now, I am not saying that had he acted different, things would have been completely different but that it would have made things change faster.
Hope we can still be friends, I still think you are great, btw!
I agree to disagree with you. I think you are great too. Anyone fighting for a complete stranger to get a fair trial in the legal system in Florida is alright in my books.
I’d really like to focus on the case and the evidence and less on an advocate on my own side, Mr. O’Mara.
We are 69 days away from trial.
100 percent agree, we are too close to the goal, and petty disagreements won’t help, my apologies for my lapse in bringing it up.
On a much brighter note, BDLR is imploding, the trayvonites have a new theory, and the media can’t ignore that a motion for sanctions is now part of the official record.
“the trayvonites have a new theory”
It’s hilarious to watch their evolution… a few days ago someone posted Trevon’s “possible route” back from the 7-11 based on Wit 8’s ‘lost’ letter, today they’re stating that it’s a ‘fact’ that this is what happened.
What’s really funny is that they haven’t even realised yet that their new factheory would mean that Trevon was tresspassing in the adjacent neighborhood.
Not only that but it would contradict her sworn April 2nd testimony.
“Trayvon runs inside the gated place to the mail thing. A couple of minutes later the white man, on the phone, in a car, is watching him. Trayvon starts walking, puts his hoodie on.”
The other apartment complex is not gated, to begin with.
Lake’s Edge is gated. Just sayin’. And the Defense wants that video…
I don’t think Colonial is and that the one that is closest.
Why do you assume he had to go into the closest one? The rain really started to pick up, looking at the East Pool cam around 6:40ish, IIRC. He left the 7-Eleven area at 6:29. He could have ducked into Lake’s Edge to wait out the 15-20 min. of rain. If the rain started to let up around 7ish that would give him walking time to get to the RATL.
Diwata and I went all over that EPC for a few pages at TL and it has been a while since I have looked at what we saw, rain-wise so I am doing this from memory.
Lake’s Edge does not have a covered mail shed, Colonial does, that is why.
Me too… I hope we can stop worrying about MOM, and get on with the destruction of the Prosecution and the Scheme Team. MOM & West will be a big part of that. Did you see my “guest post” at the Treehouse? 😉 Started out as a short email, and got way out of hand, as you can see by the length. That’s just an issue I have in ANY kind of writing I undertake. In college, we’d have an assignment for a 15-page paper, and most everyone else was struggling to get the page-count that high. Me?… I’d end up have to cut my paper in half to get DOWN to the limit. 😉 Anyway, about my Treehouse post. If nothing else, I hope it helps to lessen the arguments pro & con MOM. But I think I was honest in my post… I really DO think Bernie going insane helped MOM, just in case there WAS any concern about the PayPal stuff. I think that’s mostly behind us now. ONWARD!
Jello, let’s go forward.
Righto. Looks like the court is full speed ahead for a June trial no matter what. Damn the rules…full speed ahead.
“I watched the 2 lawyers before April 11th say vehemently that GZ was innocent. All well and good and everything but a critical thinker will tell you they can’t possibly know that yet. They hadn’t seen the evidence against their client. … But you said that before you saw anything. How can I trust this? Mr. O’Mara comes out looking more credible that he waited and saw first what was against him and his client.”
Critical thinking does not throw out our understanding and experiences of the world, and how it operates, lessons that have been learned, good logic and trust in the work of those in the field.
If you told me that I am not a critical thinker because I believe Australia exists, without having been there. Your notion of what constitutes “critical thinking” is wrong.
I do not have to spend all the money to go half way around the world to be sure that Australia exists. Yes, I believe Australia exists based on maps, photos, travel videos, people who’ve been there, who live there, but most importantly, I trust the scientists, geographers, government entities, world systems, satellite images, along with the multitude of other data that is undisputed.
One would have to distrust all the people and everything to not believe that Australia exists. A person like that would be beyond cynicism, they would be a nutter.
And that is what the BGI and people like O’Mara are. They do not believe the systems that are logically in place to do the research and work for us. Yes, we know today how much Law Enforcement and others did to make the determinations, but those who actually trusted, like the first two attorneys, that LE did do their jobs, the witnesses, the 911 calls, the injuries had happened, are the logical and intelligent ones.
O’Mara came in disbelieving everything and everyone, (except the BGI) and wanting to see everything, before speaking. That is a nutter along the lines of Truthers and UFO believers.
Hi Rick. Nice to meet you.
Hi Nettles. I don’t get to post much, but I have been reading your comments since you began on CTH.
Have missed you there. I posted this response on there btw.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/01/jello-weighs-in-guest-post/#comment-360953
Nettles, I totally agree.
There is also among the public at large a lack of understanding of how the media business works and how the “justice system” functions in reality. Many times sloppiness, inattention, pack journalism, accounts for a lot of what may be seen as conspiracy.
To be sure, there are various parties jockeying for influence, trying spin matters their way, trying to affect the outcome. The court system and the adversarial attorney environment is a microcosm of its own.
I listen carefully to the criticisms of MOM/West and weigh them against the work product offered and sequence of events in the pre-trial skirmishing. I acknowledge my own falability, so far his work seems up to snuff.
Even though the case has the racial aspects threaded through it, what counts is what is offered in court, and not in outside-of-court discussion.
I, in particular, appreciate MOM’s low key approach in his arguments as presented in the court briefs, and his calm demeanor in the courtroom. That is my preference. HIstrionics are best left to someone else, and looks like the name of that someone in this case is BDLR.
“Even though the case has the racial aspects threaded through it, what counts is what is offered in court, and not in outside-of-court discussion.”
If that’s all that counted then how did we get here?
And if we’re keeping it merely to discussion of O’Mara then why all his talk of race if all that matters is what’s said in the courtroom? Has George been charged with a hate crime?
D-man
My guess is that 95% of the time that MOM spends on this case, is on this case, and has nothing to do with race. We simply do not see what is away from the cameras.
The media has its own agenda. The primary driver is ratings.
I agree that it was racially political pressure that took this case onto a different set of rails. But we are in court, and it is in court that facts and the law matter.
“…it is in court that facts and the law matter”
You sure about that?
🙂
OK D-man, I can’t swear that this happens all the time.
Let me be a tad more precise –
In courts, facts and the law should matter, and you have a better chance than relying on a pre-judging media for a fair shake.
I totally agree with your comments about O’Mara.
We also need to remember that he was dealing with a very novel situation, the entire world was watching, Crump and Julison had polluted many minds with their fables and turned a non-racial incident into a racial debacle, the public wasn’t doing proper research, etc. O’Mara took the high road and he was appropriately cautious, IMO.
Just want to add that I wanted to see if I could find the first strongly-worded statement from O’Mara regarding George’s innocence. On the GZ Legal Case web site dated Jul 05 2012: We steadfastly maintain that George Zimmerman acted in self-defense and that he is not guilty of second degree murder.
The defense received the first two batches of discovery documents on Jun 01 and Jun 13, I think. I would not criticize O’Mara for thoroughly dissecting those documents before determining whether or not his client was truly innocent. It appears at least by Jul 05, O’Mara had indeed come to that determination. I don’t know why anyone thinks that he should have done it earlier.
Oh, I so agree with you Nettles. I think some were thinking that they were saving the best, and most explosive for later. Later never came.
A lawyer named Michael, posted on a blog yesterday http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-25-calumny-and-cowardice/#comment-9619 that he thinks that statement is the script used for Crump’s talking points in the March 20th presser. He suggests we print out the letter and watch the presser. “Here’s the approximate times in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86QQnKMuUmk IMO shows a Crump outline for his presser. Also there’s the words DeeDee uses that are the same as in Crump’s presser.
07:10 – I was on the phone with Trayvon.
08:00 – Started to rain. Raining hard.
08:10 – Running through apartment COMPLEX.
08:45 – Goes back to walking.
08:55 – “I think this dude is following me.” (Note that this is how I think DeeDee would say it, not as she says in the letter “then noticed someone was following me.” Anyone think that’s how DeeDee and Trayvon talked?)
10:30 – He says he is going to try and lose him. (Yeah, Trayvon talked like that
10:35 – Trayvon says I think I lost him.
10:48 – He says he is right behind me AGAIN.
11:00 – She says he hears Trayvon ask ‘Why are you following me?’
11:30 – She heard earpiece fall.”
He’s got a point I think.
Wow, I really like how Michael breaks things down, but he it right, it is almost as if he has this in front of him as his guide. Darn.!!
Help! I posted a comment on here about the State’s witness list. I posted all the links to the discovery that identified witnesses in their various categories. Someone on my facebook discussion is asking for it. Does anyone happen to know which thread I posted that on in this blog? If so, can you post the link for me so I can pass it onto my facebook friend? Thank you.
I can’t help you directly, but maybe I can’t help you find it. I had something similar happen to me when I needed to find a video. Luckily I remembered it was one that D-man and I discussed a few weeks back. So I went to that notification box in the upper right hand corner (the one that turns yellow) and opened it up to view all. I found the discussion date, which in turn helped me find my video.
If you remember someone replying to it, you can try using the same technique.
Thank you! I seen you disagreed with me up top but since you’ve been so helpful, I’ll just forget that! I’m going in search now. I’ll let you know if it works.
Can I kiss you! That worked!! https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/defendants-motion-for-sanctions-against-state-attorneys-office-for-discovery-violations/#comment-7297
Thank you!
Sorry I did not read your post, I knew you were responding to me. Too late,
HAH! That kiss was meant for me! Hands off, bori!
Or we’ll have to do an e-cake duel at high noon! LOL!
Don’t be jealous, I was apologizing to the Fair Lady for not helping her as she has me, many times.
BDLR has “the” phone records … and he isn’t so stupid that they won’t support the BGI’s case. And, I think DD did use someone’s untraceable Simple Mobile phone (which is now in her name) and Tracy does actually have records of his son’s phone. BUT (very unfortunately for the Schemers) neither of these phones was found at the scene of Trayvon’s assault – that unidentified “Heart” phone was dead and the California experts found no calls made on it that day. So, what makes sense … for a “girlfriend” (who is 2 years too old and can’t spell “Trevon”) and for the incensed $ybrina (whose no account, horny, ex-husband somehow found out that their deserted son came in the “Back Gate” and with a (now missing) wallet with exactly 22 dollars in it?
I’m guessing the only time Trayvon used his phone was at the 7/11 and the rest of the day it was used at Brandy’s … by Stephen! If this is true, it was Boobie who talking to DD (and HE carried the phone and the wallet back to Tracy). That’s why a “minor child” was afraid to step forward and insure “Justice for Trayvon”. DD hardly knew “Treyvon”… she knew his two years older roommate/cousin Boobie. Yes, I’m guessing $ybrina’s nephew was DD’s boyfriend … and that “responsible” Boobie was in it up to his neck.
it all makes sense. Poor DD was hounded by her boyfriend’s relatives (who didn’t know beforehand that she even existed) … BUT, that’s why BDLR will lose. He will never be able to prove Trayvon told DD her disjointed story(s) because, even if the (missing) phone reappears, it’s GPS won’t match Trayvon being “chased”.
And, I think DD has “guilt” because she not only heard everything secondhand from Boobie, but was also convinced to make up a little white lie … and publicly destroy George Zimmerman. Oh, and I’m guessing by now MOM has a Miami kindergarten class picture with two lifelong friends … neither of whom is Trayvon Martin.
We’ll see.
Vermont –
What you posit is possible, but I believe the probability to be quite low.
The possibility points how much we still don’t know of that which is knowable. As more information and facts come out, this case can go forward in a bunch of different ways. But so far, there doesn’t seem to be anything out there that contradicts GZ’s account of what transpired.
Hoon1st,
I just can’t contain myself. With all due respect, the CTH has been posting about this none stop for over a year and well, the dump on DD was not even the real “knowable”.
Why didn’t S.D. know about this letter?
“The possibility points how much we still don’t know of that which is knowable. ”
Sometimes I wonder if GZ was a magnet for tools who are not so sharp!
Now run back to S.D. and tell him to spank me. I deserve it.
Exactly what is your point?
Why would SD know about a letter that hadn’t been made public? It wasn’t even given to the Defense until Mar 13 2013. The Persecution may have had it for nearly a year.
I think what Werlegion is trying to tell us, is that Sundance is, indeed, Dee Dee! Now that I think about it, have we ever seen both of them in the same room at the same time? Hmm…. this could answer a lot of questions!
Nope, SD is not DD because I do have proof.
Sd knows how to spell Trayvon.
‘nuf sed
If BDLR had phone records (official rather than Crumped up) complete with tower ping logs to substantiate his Crumped up case, he would have released them.
Ohhh the day I will send cakes when we see who really backs SundanceCracker when he faces federal charges. Just saying.
?
WERELIGION- What is your agenda or goal?
You are posting here under the above screen name, but at the CTH you are posting under the name of truthhasanagenda (sp). You have been nothing more than a whole lot of bark, but lack any bite. You just throw down with no facts, evidence, or anything that remotely backs your statements. If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise, you are nothing more than bluster. I’ve read some of your earlier posts, and I am still scratching my head at where your arguments were going, particularly your deduction that DD’s letter was supposed to be “closure” for Sybrina. I’m unsure if you have been talking about Mark O’Mara or SundanceCracker, but I will ask, why would either be charged federally for anything? Can you provide something to back up your statements?
Huh?
“Ohhh the day I will send cakes when we see who really backs SundanceCracker when he faces federal charges. Just saying.”
Again, can you provide something to back up your assertion? or are you just blustering?
In my opinion….and given what I’ve learned about the Scheme Team and BGI, what we are dealing with in regards to nonsensical poster “WEARELEGION” ” is yet another (YAWN) black racist….another one of “them” who can be found slithering around the GZ case blogs. I wish I could reveal more……but just use common sense about “their” motives. MONEYMONEY and Mo’ money lol. The Leatherman crowd, the Xena-types, the LLMPapa dweebs…..they are all HEAVILY inve$ted in doing whatever is necessary to see the scheme through to the bitter end. Those Xena fools just don’t seem to understand that just because a Scheme Teamer “promises” them rewards for their PR efforts….it doesn’t mean anything will come of it. PARTICULARLY given the FACT that the SH1TE is hitting the proverbial fan. Funny thing—-the more the narcissist lackies like XENA (black butterfly) feign confident arrogance, the weaker and more desperate they appear. Not BDLR desperate (that’s a whole other level of paranoia unto itself! Lol) but desperate all the same.
Federal charges? For what? Thinking? Distinguishing fact from fiction? (laughing)
Don’t you love this guy’s name? “Werlegion”…. I assume that’s supposed to be We Are Legion. As in part of the Anonymous slogan. Well, sorry guy. You obviously know little about the majority of people involved in Anonymous. They are (for the most part) involved because they hate injustice, they hate secrecy, they hate when the “little guy” is stomped into the ground. So guess what?… that means that if anything, they would be firmly on the side of George. You really need to change your name, Werlegion.
Oh no. Please don’t tell me you support Anonymous. You say that Anonymous is against secrecy, yet they hide behind a heavy cloud of secrecy. If they have an agenda of hating injustice, hating secrecy, and support the little guy, why have they not come forward as a group, with their identities revealed, to fight what you believe they are fighting for?
Certain damaging “secrecy” of governments and corporations is generally what they expose. And yeah, you’re right, it seems hypocritical to rail against secrecy while being super secretive yourself… but if they didn’t do that, they wouldn’t exist. And as far as supporting them?… sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. The fact that they are so loosely-based means they’re gonna be inconsistent in their actions. I know they have some good people involved, but I have no doubt there are also bad ones. So yeah, I was a little too broad-brush with my other comment. Thanks for calling me on that.
Jello- This is exactly why you have to be the most beloved self described liberal on all these boards. You look at the facts, and then adjust your opinion according to the information and the facts. If only most would get to that level which you obviously have.
Thanks, Minpin… 😉
Tara- Do you remember a post talking about how it is common that the defense participates in keeping a defendants assets hidden, claiming the client is indigent, and then somehow taking those hidden assets to make up the amount that the defense attorney was not able to claim from the state? Were you there all the way back to that conversation? I remember that accusation but, I wondered if you did.
I remember that accusation but I didn’t believe it. Hmmm. Are you…. saying……. …….. what I think you’re saying?
Tara- What I am saying is that MOM only took the GZ case on the day he was arrested and charged. Many had a problem that MOM didn’t file immediately to get GZ out of jail. Both MOM and GZ had no clue of each other, or who could be trusted on either side. When MOM went to court just 10 or so days later, he very likely didn’t look into the paypal account GZ set up only a day or so before he was arrested. In the first bond hearing, BDLR had already had the bank manager’s cooperation in providing him with all of the information regarding all of the Zimmerman bank accounts. BDLR had already had in his possession all of the jail house tapes with GZ talking to whoever. BDLR no doubt had the exact amount that was contributed to GZ’s paypal account when he went into court that day. I seriously doubt that MOM had the same info., or even access to it at that time. BDLR asked Shellie to state the amount of donations, at that time, yet never followed through with calling the bil. Lester seemed uninterested in finding out those facts. Lester didn’t know if he had any jurisdiction over those very volatile monies, and said he was going to look into it. He never did make a ruling on his jurisdiction. Who caused who to be suspicious first?
I had more written but deleted it. I’ll let it there.
Pin. Now. This trial is going in a couple months. The court ordered 500 jurors. The SA can knock out 10 and the defense 10. The trial court judge….unlimited. “If the judge determines that the prospective juror could not be impartial or there may be an appearance of unfairness, the judge will excuse the juror “for cause.”…..Now normally they only order about 20 to 40. Well what do ya think about that? 500????
What do I think of that Howie- It’s Floridah. Nelson ordered 500 jurors as a statement of her high powers, and everyone will pay attention to her. Of course she will aid and abet the state with jury selection, she has her orders, and she marches in lock step. I read early on about Nelson that she almost always favored the prosecution. A leopard doesn’t change their spots whatever case they are sitting on. I wonder why she was moved out of criminal cases, and over to divorce cases. Nelson needs desperately to make a name for herself, and the GZ case will surely put her on the map where she never existed before. Again, it Floridah. Do they even have 500 qualified jurors in that district?
Well yes. Now the jurors come from DMV DL records not voters. But 500? That is kine crazy I think. I think 40 would be the most for almost any case. 500 for just one trial? There are lots of other trials too. It is just something I was wondering about. Then I found out the trial court can knock out unlimited for “unfairness.” Nowadays that term is broad. Oh well, just a thought. Where are they even going to put 500 prospective jurors? Will they all show up at the same time? It just sounds nutty.
I read somewhere that she aspires to be on the Supreme Court of Florida.
OK Minpin, thanks for the explanation. Nothing like I thought you might write. For a moment there I was experiencing paranoia. 🙂 I’m an O’Mara fan. I’m also a Sundance fan. I have no idea what Werlegion was alluding to, and now I don’t even care. 🙂
Anyone else think that this letter is totally useless? It’s not even worth discussing. DeeDee’s recorded interviews, her deposition, and any phone records are sufficient.
It’s safe to presume that she knew Trademark and she was talking to him up until just minutes before he was killed. She does not hurt George at all. I have said this so many times, sorry for the repeats … she establishes that it was Trademark who initiated the verbal confrontation, and she establishes that Trademark had been “right by” Brandy’s apartment and yet ended up back at the sidewalk T where he had run past minutes earlier. Trademark could have gone into Brandy’s apartment (if he wasn’t locked out, that is) but he instead went back to the T and confronted George. The “scare chile” theory is shot to h*ll.
Bernie introduced that letter because he’s desperate. His case is falling apart. Crump, Julison, Nasty, $ybrina, and Tracy blabbed so much to the media and couldn’t keep their stories straight they now look like a bunch of flaming idiots. Bernie made one last appeal to emotion, which is all he’s got. Look, a handwritten letter from the grieving girlfriend! Awwwwww. Too bad she can’t spell his name right, and too bad it has about as much feeling in it as a rock.
I’m imagining Bernie offering a plea deal to George, which of course George will reject, hopefully with a hearty laugh.
I agree that Dee Dee (still not sure if there’s one or two) is no threat to the Defense. But I’m not at all certain she WAS on the phone with Trayvon. The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning toward her being on the phone with Stephen. I’m starting to think that Dee Dee was HIS girlfriend.
Well that would make things even more interesting. 🙂 But even if you assume that DeeDee was talking to Trademark, it still doesn’t hurt George. Some star witness.
(Bernie, you should have known better.)
Tara:
I think that the letter has value, depending on when it was written and the circumstances surrounding its appearance. i think it helps the GZ side.
I think that BDLR introduced it, because he had to.
I am way behind in reading comments but a few have said this will end the case. Why?
Hi Tara – I respect your opinion – but I had the idea that it is just another nail in Bernie’s coffin. O’mara needs to show profound inconsistencies in DeeDee’s stories. The letter contradicts her voice statement. Futher, what truly damages Bernie – is that he “hid” this letter from O’mara for one year. That it truly a bad-mark on Bernie – because you suspect he is also hiding other crucial parts of this story – like no INDEPENDENT, confirming phone logs have EVER BEEN DISCOVERED.
I agree with you. I have a tendency to think that the evidence supporting George is already overwhelming, forgetting that it’s important to include ALL evidence just to be safe. And I had overlooked the impact on Bernie, that he hid the letter for as long as a year. Thanks for commenting and changing my mind. 🙂
Off topic but this is amazing:
BTW I support MOM. Which is why out of the blue you start sh*!
Who`s a racist? http://wonkette.com/416884/%E2%80%98impromptu-barry-ice-cream-contest%E2%80%99-inspires-racist-fantasy-flavors
Does anyone know about TM’s phone records and if there was any location information found? Also, what about GZ’s phone? Did report its location?
Last I knew, the data for Feb 26 (day of shooting) was conveniently absent.
Hard for me to believe the data for Feb 26 cannot be recovered.
The phone location data comes from the carrier not the phone, either way it seem none of it will be released, I believe is due to an agreement made between the defense and prosecution, not to release any personal private information. My guess is that the ping logs are inconclusive and MOM has said that the GPS datat was missing for that day.
I was wondering how many jurors there will be for the trial, and according to what I’ve read there will likely be only 6. There would be 12 if it were a First Degree Murder trial. Apparently it has to be a unanimous decision to convict, that’s good. If there’s a hung jury, how many times can they force George to go to trial?
Not the right thread, but will post here anyway (in case it has not been posted yet).
County gets set for Trayvon verdict
http://www.sfltimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12913&Itemid=199
Notice the picture used is still the one where TM is 12, which is meant to stir up anger that the sweet little boy was gunned down for having skittles and watermelon juice. Then the article goes into all kinds of detail about keeping the peace. It sure sounds to me that most everyone knows that GZ was acting in self defense, and that he will be likely acquitted by the jury, if not before then. Thanks for the link.
I did notice that, pinecone (minpin). The media is obviouly in love with that innocent looking face and cotinues to use it. Sadly tghat is all that many people see when they see or hear anything about TM.
HOOSON. You aren’t going to hear it from them. They want it to go away.
So I will tell you. I don’t post at CTH. I don’t even visit CTH. it is beneath me. I digress.
The creators of CTH were once followers of Kevin Dujan who ran Hillbuzz dot org. Unsure of all of the “Treepers” but there was SD, Stella, YTZ, Aussie were just few. Most of them headed to HillBuzz in support of Hilliary Clinton’s run in 08. Yeah as in Hillary Clinton! Then they backed Palin.
Since Dujan was very outspoken on Obama which they all hate amongst other things, (including he had hot spots in the media) some Treepers donated money to Dujan.
Story goes….
Dujan entered the twilight zone sometime in 11/10 on some USO thread claiming his conservative follwers were not volunteering enough. I think Dujan got tired of doing the dirty work. Dujan then ranted against a veterans widow and all he** broke lose. KD doxed, & harassed, and banned his own people, that just didn’t see things his way(sound familiar?), including this widow with the help of some treepers (this was discovered later).
Dujan lost many of his followers. It took a while for some treepers to take him for the dishonest scam artist that he is possibly because they think alike. The last of them came late into the game and triedreally hard to fix their image and reconnect with on other websites but where told to take a hike. They did not want to get involved becasue the website was not just about “politics” . At this same time, SD was posting and contributing under GrandpaCracker screen name on a website (I shall not name because I do not support racial hatred even though I was called a racist on this very thread) which has very clearly promoting racism of blacks. The ttreepers tried another wordpress but it didn’t pick up.
Then in 2011 they decided to create the last refuge but only until recently has the site picked up because of the Benghazi and T.M coverage. All in all since this questionable coverage, including critiquing the defendants atty. (when they have no law degree and all the while promoting donating to the atty).
In the event CTH has lost a lot of good contributors, and not many people want to associate with anyone with a web owner who is…..how should I say this kindly….very angry and immature.
IMO they just picked up where Dujan left off. SD may even be heading to the twilight zone himself.
CTH admins are no different then those they rant and rave about on a daily basis.
They don’t want to be leaders. They want to be lead. It is in their history. They go to political rallies. Support politicians which are all crooked. Hand money to Lobbies for those same crooked Politicians. They have a small little web space, have a few low rating media connections and feel important. They are tools. CTH are a bunch of wanna “bees”. They are so counter productive to what others have died and worked hard for, which simply is FREEDOM! They are counterproductive to Conservatives and Moderates who would never in a million years represent the filth on their page, at least not in public, or morally do what they think they do behind closed doors. That they do so in public, makes me believe they deserve to be exposed. In due time. All in due time. Do some research. You all seem very well at it.
I do not expect this to remain here. But it should. After all………….The Truth Has No Agenda, right?
I don’t suppose you have any links to support what you have said here, do you? These are strong unfounded allegations. If you have something I am all ears but until then, those folks will remain my friends.
You know absolutely nothing about true Liberty, or what it means to actually fight for freedom. You have never picked up a weapon and risked your life. You sit behind a keyboard in your pyjama’s and pound away at nonsense.
“All in due time”.
Is that supposed to be “mysterious”?
How unbelievably childish in this day and age. People don’t have time for this type of sophmoric ranting. You have a point you want to make? Make it openly, honestly, and substantiated by facts and reasons.
Otherwise you are just another BGI sympathetic troll, who uses veiled threats and pathetic attempts at intimidation to “silence” people who don’t agree with them.
Grow up. Seriously. What’s next – you’re going to threaten to hold your breath until the CTH “gives in” and “takes down their page”. Are you so afraid of your position and your beliefs that you have to stoop to childish antics? If you are standing from a place of strength, you win supporters by reason.
Jordan they wont let me post links here. Tried last night. I bet if you do some google searches you will find proof. That is unless youd rather be punkd as well. Just google Kevin Dujan and USO
There is your proof. Kevin Dujan is sick but hes just fine. You see him post every day. A few times a day.
@Aussie I will give you the limelight if that is what you seek. In due time. In due time.
TaTa.
Jordan. Is that what they have you believing? That without CTH George Zimmerman would would be headed to prision? Snake oil.
No other site has revealed the facts like the CTH.
Aussie,
Someone I use to know once said ” As I have said over and over and over, the left has one trick that it will use again and again when its back is in the corner: shout ‘racist’ in a crowded country”
You and many at The Refuge are guilty as sin when it comes to calling names.
You are a disgrace to the late Mr. Briebart. He my be the Refugees hero, but you all have a long way to go.
“By the fruits we will know them.” God
Dissent is still the highest form of patriotism! I have mind about me this legion person has more balls then anyone at that treehouse. I briefly investigated this hillbuzz deal. I am shocked. You all have misreprented yourselves and hurt many good people. You all have gone out of your way to do it too. Maybe we all should start listening to trolls and racist!
Howie,
Nothing would happen even if the person was purple. Juries must follow instruction. A juror was just excused in the Jodi Arias trial and she is claiming self defense too. It was the defense team that moved to excuse her. And then called for a mistrial. Just like Casey Anthony. If Arias and Zimmerman are aquitted life is over reguardless the outcome. Accept their fate. They either have proven their innocence and dont go to jail or they are not behind bars but still live with their fate. Nothing will ever be the same for the Zimmermans. But I refuse to pay their bills for being irresponsible. As a gun owner he was irresponsible. He could have remained in that car. He cocked that gun before he even was confronted. If he did not how could he shoot in defense? His guns only saftey is not putting one in the chamber. It is better to have a gun and not need it. And in this case if he stayed in that car and just waited he never would have been confronted and would not have had to utlize his weapon. I can not suuport irresponsible gun use. Not in these times.
Is some trying to divert attention away from the discussion about facts? What matters is TM assaulted GZ and was shot in self defense. and A WHOLE LOT of people are involved in a PERSECUTION.
“I am most definitely not pro-Hillary Clinton.Nope your conclusions are totally wrong.What drew me to the site was the defence of a child with Downs Syndrome… simple as that”
Notice there is no protest against being a pro liberal or gay. And the only website to become an active adminsitrator for years DEFENSE of downsyndrome I supose was Hilbuzz. Notice to who first mentions this gay guy. WERLEGION did not even mention . Aussie goes wayyyyy back on CTH website. In fact it looks like she searched for them. Humm somthin smells fishy and it sure aint tuna. Meeowwwww.
Ps. Just noticed CTH 1st & 2 nd bday posts. Interesting.
It is impossible to ‘join’ Anonymous, as there is no leadership, no ranking, and no single means of communication. Anonymous is spread over many mediums and languages, with membership being achieved simply by wishing to join the cause of being ANON.
Citizens of the World,
We will give SundanceCracker and his crew time. We give you ample time before you expose yourself. Before we give your names you protect but refuse to do for others who dissent. We are aware of police reports, civil, IRS suits, foreclousers, divorces, child support, SSI, crimes. Shutdown theconservativetreehouse dot com and we will not reveal admins. ids You have until 11pm Sundance time tonight. Those who have links to CHT remove them by 10 pm. Otherwise we will make every single one of you a witness in this case.
We do not forgive. We do not forget. We are Legion.
Are your threats intended to be a joke?
Hey, what happened? The Treehouse is still up and running just fine! You sure aren’t very good… I thought Anonymous was much more skilled than that. Oh wait, I know what the problem is!… It’s that YOU have NOTHING to do with Anonymous. Once again, as in previous attempts, one major clue for anyone wondering if you’re legit is this: The vast majority of people involved with Anonymous hate bullies, they especially hate when the gov’t tries to stomp the little guy into the ground. Which is exactly what’s being done to George in this case. In other words, if you really had anything to do with Anonymous, you would very like be defending George… NOT cheering on his persecution. Carry on…
I have never seen a threat like this before. What is the point?
This is clearly an onion parody.
“Citizens of the World”.
Wow. Somebody’s been watching too many Saturday morning cartoons!
“we are legion”?
LOL
Well, you can CLAIM to be whoever, and whatever, you want, but you are most assuredly NOT associated with “Anonymous”, and the ONLY things you will ever manage to reveal is your own pathetic inadequacies. Nice try, TrayHugger. Now, be a nice little child and let Mommy use her computer to contact your psychologist.
Reblogged this on Captain Long Schlong Silver.
DeeDee’s last lie – contradicts her verbal statements:
DeeDee> … I called back and text. No response. In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story
So DeeDee “heard” the beginning of a “fight” – were TM was “scared” – of this “White Guy” 125 yards away. Then, somehow, TM “closed” the 125 yards, and TM wound up at the “T”. Then DeeDee “heard grass” and the phone went “dead”. So she ASSUMED that this was a “normal fight for TM”, and that although there was no response – there was no reason to “be concerned” – for the next 22 days. This was after she had been talking to TM for 500 minutes on that day!
Incredible!
Jello Hi. I don’t want to take away take anyone off topic. But WOW!
I am not an Anonymous expert or anything. I have read things here and there. I did want to let you all know that not everyone who calls themselves Anonymous are not hackers. Some attack web site traffic and bandwidth others do what is called Doxing. They usually always give people time to fix what they perceive as a wrong. I am in no way vouching for this wearelegion. But I have to mention they did not say anything in their post to indicate they were going to hack. They just said that they would expose people if the web owners did not close down by a certain time. Just offering my observation.
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Almost everything you need to know and maybe even some things you might not want to know can be found on DMan’s site This is a true Truth Seeker blog. Thanks for following.
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