Page 4 – The Nettles18 Breaking News GZ Open Thread

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179 thoughts on “Page 4 – The Nettles18 Breaking News GZ Open Thread

    • diwataman – it can’t be said enough how much we appreciate the time you spend keeping us updated w/new threads and information on the case.

  1. It’s possible that the 5th DCA won’t need MOM’s 10 day reply to the state’s reply and find the latter insufficien and rule in MOM’s favor. Wouldn’t THAT be just a great kick in the teeth! :))

    • lolz

      “The guest speakers for the Awards Banquet on Saturday April 27th in Orlando will be Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Trayvon Martin’s parents, and George Zimmerman’s defense attorney Mark O’Mara. Crump and O’Mara will explain how social media played a role in the case that led to nationwide protests.”
      http://www.ap.org/states/florida/fapb_awards.html

      I think O’Mara already did that:

      • The media didn’t care to listen the first time MOM explained this and I don’t think they will listen tonight either. For the media to accept what MOM is saying, they would have to first admit to themselves that they were wrong when reporting on this case. Just don’t see it happening.

      • I just checked the finalists for the media awards, professional and college, and I didn’t see any reference to the Orlando Sentinel, Jeff Weiner, Rene Stutzman. No Matt Gutman either. Where the heck is Ryan Julison, didn’t he take credit for getting the narrative out there for all to see? They must be crushed. There is only 1 mention of TM in the long lists, “Trayvon Martin death stirs legal debate.” There is a media availability with Crump and O’Mara from 6:30-6:40, 10 minutes, in the Jasmine room, at the same time that dinner starts.

        It seems from the finalists list that there really is other news in Florida, other than just GZ/TM news. Perhaps the majority of media outlets have moved on, at least until the trial starts, if there ever is a trial. The AP article seems to be trying to highlight the two contentious parties, Crump and O’Mara to gain more attention and attendees. Unless you are a part of the media, the event will probably be very boring.

        • pinecone – Fla. has some good investigative reporters’s and great legal analyst, especially from WFTV and several received National honors such as reporter Kathy Belich & Tony Pippitone from another outlet. Attorneys Nejame, Sheaffer, Hornsby, & Tennis participated in episodes of 48 hours/Dateline/Frontline or other Hour long features of KC’s case & were featured on other hour long Orlando programs debating the case on Sunday morning talk shows. The Orlando Analyst share little on this case, if the local media doesn’t cover it, who’s going to ask their opinion, certainly not the National Media as they aren’t covering it either. WFTV has had very little on the case which is a real disappointment, Bill Sheaffer had a BLOG as well as Hornsby and they were always in the Media commenting & dissecting the MOTIONS filed by the State or Defense, giving their predictions before a hearing, critiques of Court performances afterwards & commenting on the rulings.. The Orlando Media hasn’t covered this case closely by choice, in the past, they would have hounded BDLR for his unprofessional behavior but that hasn’t happened. They have hardly reported on GZ’s story imo compared to past high profile cases EXCEPT at the beginning when the MEDIA thought it was a racially motivated hate crime. There have been several high profile cases that National Media covered in the past couple of years, I too watched the trials of: Bob Ward, Adam Kauffman, KC, the murder of the Billingsly couple w/all the special needs children, and recently, John Goodman the multi millionaire who was convicted of vehicular manslaughter fr driving his Bently into a College age student leaving him to die & for his attempt to adopt his girlfriend as his daughter to defraud his biological children. All nationally reported cases.

          If you notice, this case ONLY makes National attention IF the local affiliate reports on the story in Orlando, the National Media copies the Orlando media article and posts it online referring to the Orlando affiliate, a real disappointment as this is an important case on many levels. Maybe closer to trial HLN will cover it more, that’s if Jodi’s case ever ends which is probably the highest profile case covered Nationally now. jmo.

          • Just curious but I wonder if the majority of the media backed off the GZ case after Beasley filed the lawsuit against NBC, I think it was NBC. They indicated that there will be more lawsuits coming. I think it’s pretty obvious why Gutman has been pretty quiet about it all. I don’t read the Fla. websites, but it seems that everything written about the case comes from Stutzman and Weiner mostly at the Orlando Sentinel. At least they are the only links posted here usually.

            • your right pinecone – but there is a reason imo, The OS newspaper probably has an obligation to report on the case to those that subscribe, many people depend on their local paper for all their news on everything local. The local TV stations don’t have a big interest, they can pick and choose the stories they report, what’s most interesting to the audience they are competing for, The thing about Stuzman & Wiener, I don’t think Wiener is an attorney, nor legal analyst, he reports his opinion selectively, which, imo, has chosen to leave out many of the high points in the case. It is s certainly not investigative reporting that the local stations in Orlando usually do on a high profile case which this case sorely needs, hopefully, Tony Pipitone will show more interest in the facts and start reporting more often.

              Although it was good Pippitone reported on the case, it seemed, imo, that he inferred some of the bickering was MOM’s fault & would be settled Tuesday. IF he bothered to investigate WHY all the bickering, he’d really have a story that needs to be told, but, he’d have to really work to report that story.

  2. I don’t know why, but when I went to that page and read that they were both appearing as speakers, the first thing that popped in my head was the WWE (pro-wresting). Where two guys beat the crap out each other; looking like they are out for blood and severe bodily destruction. Then the next day hanging out at the bar having drink and swapping stories.

    So is that an appropriate analogy to the legal profession? Pro-wrestling?

    • I see your analogy, however, a man’s life is on the line, and I just find this speaking engagement totally inappropriate. Do what you want when the trial is over, but goodness gracious if GZ didn’t have grounds to point to poor representation before, this definitely could be something for GZ to point to. MOM should be at the office practicing his arguments not on a stage with that piece of scum that has done the best he could and continues to try the case in the media feeding false information and lies. I am totally scratching my head on what goes on in MOM’s head when he does something like this. I’m sooo disappointed. Every time I give him a chance to inspire me, he does, and then shoots it down with this kinda crazy stuff. So, yes, your analogy to the world of phony pro-wrestling is accurate. They have real fights too cause like actors they have egos. But if this was my attorney I would want him (because of his actiions) to have NO respect for Crump, because Crump is scum and scum has no place in the justice system. Nothing good can come from scum. I worked for attorneys for many years. I think I can only use one hand to count the few I knew that were not in some way offensive to me in the way they conducted themselves. By nature an attorney is paid to get you out of a situation in ANY way he can. Whether it’s above the table or under the table … makes no difference to them. They ARE in many ways just like politicians. They would step over their dying mother in the street if it means a big payoff in the end. As you can tell … I have little respect for them. I’ve cursed them. Yet, when you get in trouble, they are the first you call. What a world.

      • ottawa925 – I understand and respect your position and frustration, but MOM was a Legal Analyst for Orlando long BEFORE he became the Defense Attorney for GZ, MOM will return, I assume, to his position as an Analyst after this case ends.

        I’m not offended, MOM/West have a personal life besides GZ’s case, GZ has a personal life. MOM has pumped out a lot of work out for this hearing and imo, did an excellent job, I don’t begrudge him a personal life. Besides, MAYBE someone will ask MOM something about the case & it will be reported on by the media that have ignored this case.

        • “Besides, MAYBE someone will ask MOM something about the case & it will be reported on by the media that have ignored this case.”

          That could be. However, regardless of MOM, West or whoever … wouldn’t matter …. I myself would never stand on the same stage with Crump. Not in a million years. I hope MOM mentions in his speech that if it wasn’t for social media they would still be unaware of the ABC recording. It was Tara who stumbled over it in the dark … and oooops there it is. I myself when I posted at the treehouse made mention that no one had ever heard Trayvon’s voice. That there must be recordings of him speaking somewhere. Wasn’t but a week or two later MOM/West asked for any and all videos or recordings of T’s voice. And the connecting of the dots done over at the treehouse with exposing the Crumpster’s masterminded media blitz in the beginning when MOM and West weren’t even in the case. I think there have been very few slip ups with social media that came to benefit GZ. What Crump and MOM should understand is that social media cannot be stopped. So it should be a very short speech on the part of both Crump and MOM. It’s here to stay and there’s nothing you can do about it. When you have thousands of people investigating … it gets REALLY interesting.

  3. “By nature an attorney is paid to get you out of a situation in ANY way he can.”

    Many times in response to an entity more powerful than yourself which is seeking, for whatever reason, that which you will not welcome, and it’s not unheard of for the other side to use whatever tools and methods are at their disposal/they can get away with.

    That’s the adversarial system.

    Until someone comes up with something better…

    • True, but even tho I worked with attorneys, I never worked with criminal attorneys. We had the OJ case that everyone watched. That was one. Then for me the next big case was the Casey Anthony case. And what came up for me is what I always tended to ask myself or discuss with others this business of the defense making up stories for the jury in order to get their client off. Like when Baez announced with no obligation to demonstrate the evidence of his story that the child died in the pool. Gasp in the courtroom. Now although I myself never worked for criminal … my family has. I have a nephew with 30 years in the State’s Attorney’s Office, and my sister has worked for 30 years for criminal defense attorneys. When we discuss in general notable cases in the news it gets interesting. I think everyone here knows that a criminal defense attorney NEVER asks his client … did you do it? They don’t want to know. They just want to know the particulars of what happened. Like it is the standard for the State to seek the truth before they charge it also should be the standard for the defense to seek the truth. But that is not the case. It’s not the job of the defense to seek truth. It is their job to PROTECT THE RIGHTS of their client, and to discredit evidence and witness testimony. To me, IMO, it is not their job to create another story, plant that in the jury’s brain, with no obligation to prove it. To me justice is not served in this manner. There’s probably very few here reading that in the past was always on the side of the defense on criminal cases. We were like good .. I hope he fries, etc. This GZ case has opened my eyes about how someone can be railroaded and found guilty. I could be GZ, you could be GZ. Unless there is something we don’t know about what happened that night, to me I see a man that fought for his life and to do so tragically had to take the life of another. GZ’s defense is doing an outstanding job of protecting GZ’s rights. That’s their first and foremost job against a prosecution that is corrupt all they way up to the the Attorney General … and a republican to boot. Just awful. This whole case from the very start is like a tree that has been put in the ground on a 90 degree angle. It wasn’t planted straight … with facts from both sides. If it had been we’d be looking at a maximum of manslaughter or minimum … no charge cause it was self defense. The State lied, Crump lied, and its just one lie after another in a Court of law that is supposed to demand THE TRUTH. So for right now, we can SEE (read) that MOM and West are doing a great job on client’s rights (discovery, etc). What we have not seen is their plan of attack for defense. But unlike the Casey Anthony case with everyone wondering what happened to Caylee, the GZ defense will not need to make up a story with no evidence to support that story. GZ admitted to shooting Trayvon. They just need to explain to the jury why he shot him.

  4. ottawa925 says: – you make many good points, but just consider, ALL of this information is available for ANYONE to read that is truly following the case, it’s free, MOM’s site has provided most of it for their viewing pleasure ! Many are not interested in doing so no matter what is shoved in their faces, they made up their minds the night TM died, they convicted GZ and still feel the same today. Most still interested in the case & follow the BLOGS & ideas exchanged, choose Blogs that support the opinion they have already formed. That’s the sad reality, they didn’t follow the evidence/facts and form independent opinions.

    At this point it doesn’t appear, imo, that anyone is going to change their mind about this case no matter what BDLR or MOM say publicly, if a person hasn’t followed closely, read the discovery, and instead chose to rely on Crump, Sybrina, and Tracy, opinions aren’t likely to ever change, EVEN when GZ hopefully walks. Very few National attorneys have said more than “Corey overcharged as is her reputation” but local legal analyst said the same, Hornsby has predicted “GZ will walk” but that’s about it! Alan Derchowitz. made a difference, WHY? Because he’s Nationally known and respected. The National Media could have Alan D on anytime, but they don’t, because they aren’t following the story.

    I just pray the best jurors are selected during voir dire, but that too remains to be seen.

    • The National Media won’t have Derchowitz on because they don’t want the truth told. He would make them and the narritive they pushed, look very bad.

    • Here is raw video of the question/answer period the two lawyers took part in at 6:30pm before they gave their presentation at 7:30pm.

      http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-mark-omara-benjamin-crump-talk-about-george/vzQ4f/

      Note at the 19:51 mark, Mr. Crump advises that attorney Modarres is on the legal team and he was part of a “conscious decision” to move back after there was an arrest. He strangely, doesn’t mention Mr. Parks. Nor is Mr. Parks on the recent submission made to the court. Is there trouble between the two?

      Of course, that’s not the way I remember it. The media moved back and Crump continued to fight for attention after the arrest. Sybrina Fulton went to one hearing and reminded people not to forget about her son.

      At 7:30pm, Crump gave a speech, then Mr. O’Mara gave a speech and Crump was given 2 minutes to rebut. Then reporters asked questions. The whole thing took about an hour. You can read the reporters live tweets at #FAPB. As Mr. Crump was giving his 7:30 speech, a reporter tweeted out his picture of Mr. O’Mara taking notes, lol. https://twitter.com/Tiff_Griff/status/328297388127162368/photo/1

      Right after the 6:30pm question/answer period, a reporter asked them to pose for a picture and she was surprised they did. Here’s a link to the facebook discussion we had last night sharing what information we could get of the 7:30pm speeches from various reporters’ tweets. Starting with the picture after the 6:30 presser. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=566648690041320&id=558436937529162&comment_id=6191990&offset=200&total_comments=693

  5. Crump said last night, at the media event, that it wasn’t him that started the social media storm that took the Martin/Zimmerman story nationwide, it was the “gassroots.” He never bothers to mention, for the past year, that it was his office that hired a PR guy to come up with a strategy to get the news out, as only local media was covering the story in the beginning. It was also his firm that employs Jasmine Rand, also a prof. at a Flor. Univ., who got some of her students to barage the social media outlets to carry the story nationwide.

    http://www.loop21.com/life/how-justice-sought-trayvon-martin-media?page=1

    It was on Crumps demand, and with the threat of a lawsuit, that the Sanford Mayor Triplett released the 911 tapes, against the advice of the then police chief Lee. Some of the tapes contained the sound of the gun shot, which meant the tapes were a part of the investigation, and should not have been released to the public. In the link above, Jasmine Rand claims that it was the 911 tape release that really got the social media storm going and took it nationwide. She claims that the cries on the tapes were of that poor sweet little innocent child.

    For Crump to call for any kind of peace is laughable, as he is the one who along with Al Sharpton were calling for boycotts, mayhem and riots if GZ was not arrested. Guaranteed if GZ is acquitted, or set free in any way, he will be back with his BGI calling for the same boycots, mayhem and riots.

    You can rest assured that any time a white kills a black, for any reason including self defense, they will be Zimmermaned.

    While social media can be a force for good, it is being used massively by those that have caused so much hatred and decent into an abyss, and their forms of justice.. They call for their versions of “justice” to the exclusion of everyone else who is seeking legal and equal justice.under the laws on the books. For Crump and his ilk, lying is the new civil rights, and unfortunately it is protected by the first amendment.

    I laughed when I saw the picture of O’Mara with his arm around Crump. Bernie must has pulled out his three remaining hairs. How is he going to slam O’Mara for that media event?

  6. pinecone – excellent comment, many good points & a good refresher on the chain of events of how Crump/BGI manipulated social media. While Crump called for “peace,” many that bought into the scam heard “HATE” & beat innocent whites across Fla. & America, some even saying to their victims: “this is for Trayvon” after giving the beat down. One man was beaten by a group of blacks w/paint cans, one man that was beaten was 78 yrs. old. These stories were HARDLY REPORTED in the Media, I guess the excuse was not to promote MORE violence from angry black youths/men in the name of TM, there will no way of knowing all the violence associated with the TM because of the MEDIA. During this time Sybrina, Crump, and Tracy were passing the “trashcan” in black churches or jetting off to London

    Suspect says he beat teen because he was angry over Trayvon Martin case
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-authorities-racially-charged-beating-sparked-by-death-of-trayvon-martin-20120425,0,6204964.story

    From article:
    Now the name “Trayvon” is being invoked not only to describe other cases — in Baltimore, New York and beyond — in which young people have been injured or killed, but also as a sign of anger during attacks on whites.

    On Saturday, a mob of about 20 African Americans allegedly beat a white man on the porch of his Mobile, Ala., home with chairs, pipes, brass knuckles and paint cans. The man’s sister said one of the assailants shouted, “Now that’s justice for Trayvon,” WKRG reported.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/26/nation/la-na-nn-trayvon-beatings-20120426

    http://thegrio.com/2012/04/23/trayvon-martin-cited-in-case-of-black-man-beating-white-man/

    There were many more cases, these were the first I saw after I googled the violence associated with TM.

    • Mr. Crump and his team have to be watched very carefully for mixed messages. He and his team change their message to whatever audience they are talking to. When he and Sybrina gave an interview to NPR on February 25, 2013, Sybrina was asked about race in this case and she said

      FULTON: “I still feel that we should not make this about black and white. I still feel that we should take this and look at it as face value. We should see that this was an unarmed teenager and we should see that this was an adult that chased after this kid. And just to put things in proper perspective, because anybody who has a kid, whether it’s a girl or boy, you don’t want some stranger following your child.” http://www.npr.org/2013/02/25/172879965/-grief-still-very-real-for-trayvons-mom

      The next day, the same reporter interviewed Robert Zimmerman Jr. on the anniversary of the shooting and questioned why Robert Jr. described himself on Maher’s show as Afro-Peruvian and even Sybrina, who was interviewed the prior day said this case wasn’t about race. Robert’s response was:

      JR.: “You know, I’ll take Ms. Fulton as her word. I seem to remember earlier things, though, where she said, you know, my son is dead because of the color of his skin. And that’s not that, you know, subject to interpretation. You’re pretty much saying because someone is black that’s why they’re dead. Their attorneys went out and made the case repeatedly for misguiding the public into believing – and the media accepting their words as truth – that George was some kind of racist.”
      http://www.npr.org/2013/02/26/172965368/zimmermans-brother-truth-will-be-revealed-in-court

      A week later, on March 9th, Sybrina gave the most racist interview I’ve ever heard to Star Jones. Talking to a black audience, Star said it’s a showing of the many private conversations they have had. Sybrina out and out said her son was shot because of the color of his skin. (see the 14:24 mark) Star Jones accuses the police of not arresting GZ that night because he looks like them. (see the 15:50 mark) Crump joins the interview and repeats the racist allegations. I was steamed after listening to this interview.
      http://fora.tv/2013/03/05/Star_Jones_Talks_Justice_with_Trayvon_Martins_Mother

      • And not one reporter questioned her about this huge inconsistencies. The NPR comments responding to that pandering interview were encouraging, but I must admit that like Little Laughter I would not be surprised ( horribly disgusted though) if the jury joined in with the masses indulging in riot ideology. The media no longer attempts to inform or educate, they manipulate visceral reactions, they pander to extremism.

  7. AT LEAST it made National News: (more of the same reported of the event)

    George Zimmerman attorney says social media caused unnecessary ‘firestorm’ following Trayvon Martin shooting!

    Social media “caused a firestorm that wasn’t a full picture,” O’Mara said of how misinformation was tweeted soon after the shooting.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/zimmerman-attorney-social-media-caused-firestorm-trayvon-martin-shooting-article-1.1329529#ixzz2Rmjhp199

    • I embarrassingly have to admit yet again that I do not have any ability to watch videos. I live in a rural location and the nearest tower is about 40 miles away, there are not enough folks out my way to warrant anyone installing the cable necessary for high speed internet. I am stuck with dinosaur dial up for access. I had installed a satellite service which was three times as expensive, and the speed was only marginally faster than dial up. Every time there was a cloud the service was out. I told them to shove their crappy service and had no choice but to go back to dinosaur dial up with a land line. The tradeoff is that I live on the property of a former founding father and president, and am surrounded on three sides by huge horse fields. I can honestly say, come and get me, if you can find me, if things start getting a little heated out there. I have more to worry about with the black bears and snakes than I do from rioters and/or protesters. I could easily have had George and Shellie staying with me and no one would have been the wiser.

      Thank you art for posting the link that contained O’Mara quotes. I must depend on transcripts and those posters that I have grown to trust and respect. I look forward to the posters keeping me informed with what is going on in the courtroom on Tues.

      From what I’m reading, O’Mara’s inclusion at the media event was a good thing, and it kept Crump from owning the night and the message. It sounds like O’Mara was cordial, civil, classy, but right on target with his words. He didn’t give the night away to the liar. O’Mara knows that even if there was a video of TM dragging GZ out of his car, beating him to a pulp, and then GZ shooting him, it won’t change the minds of those with an ulterior motive and agenda.

      • I wanted to add that IMO O’Mara and West have little to no ability to go after the very corrupt media, and to force them to do accurate and correct reporting of events and facts. The only thing MOM/West can do is to keep hammering Crump in the court system to expose his lies, distortions, and manipulations. If they can manage to get Crump brought up before the Fla. Bar, or Fla. SC on some kind of charges, to seek punishment or disbarment, that is fine with me. I’d prefer disbarred, but this is Fla., and Crump is a very good friend of Bondi, who has the ear of the Gov.

        I’ve noted that Parks has been very quiet and laying low for a while. I wonder if he is distancing himself in order to not lose the entire firm in any lawsuits against Crump for his complicity in the mangling of the case. I wonder if he is “afeared” by Beasley and who all he will go after next. He knows that Crumpy really really screwed up with DD.

  8. Attorneys Benjamin Crump, Mark O’Mara preview Tuesday hearing

    But Crump disagrees, and while he says he’s not going to play a role in the courtroom, he will represent the family who says they want justice for their dead son.

    “There were times when we believe Trayvon Martin was attacked, his family was attacked and we had to represent their interests. We will represent their interests throughout this process because we as lawyers understand that’s our role,” Crump explained.

    http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/4/27/attorneys_benjamin_c.html

    In addition MOM said:
    O’Mara said his client is ready to answer whatever questions the prosecution has. “He’ll be there and we will see if there’s going to be any inquiry at all.”
    ____________________________________________________
    Mom’s response about the “inquiry” the prosecution has indicates MOM is ready to slap BDLR down yet again.

    I HOPE Crump PLAYS a significant role in the trial, I wish Crump would point to ANY KNOWN EVIDENCE that indicates GZ attacked TM & exactly WHAT indicates GZ attacked TM EXCEPT to illicit sympathy or detract from the person TM was, EVEN LE doesn’t know who threw the 1st punch, why would that nit wit? Reporters STILL REFUSE to ask the hard questions!

  9. Jordan asked in response to my comment to nettles

    [Me:]“He specifically set out to stop discovery from being released”

    [Jordan]”I have asked about this many times since the case started, including an alleged deal he made with the state regarding the time line for release.

    No one has ever responded to my satisfaction. Was there, in fact, a deal of some sort? If so, was it in writing? I do tend to believe that something has prevented MOM from asking for specific discovery along the way and many of us are still wondering why all discovery has not been turned over and what is MOM doing about it?

    All the answers I hear are “hogwash” to me. No offense intended to anyone.

    Can you give us your list of specific examples of MOM stopping discovery from being released?”

    https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/updates-on-the-updates-and-such-george-shellie-and-jonathan/#comment-11652

    @0:56
    Didn’t want the judge to attend to the bail issue because there would be a demand to present evidence thereby supposedly increasing the fervor around the case. So O’Mara feels it’s his job to keep evidence out of view of the public to “calm this case down”.

    @2:54
    Why did you ask for everything to be sealed?

    “My concern was…this matter was being handled in a piecemeal fashion…we don’t need to let it out piecemeal because you’re going to misinterpret it and I [have to waste my time responding to your incompetence because no one can handle this like me, I am, after all, The O’Mara].

    Notice O’Mara does not mention these concerns to the judge. He just asks, as reminded by Corey, to seal the record.

    @3:00

    There are numerous other quotes you can find made early on by O’Mara in regards to his efforts to “quell the masses” so to speak. It was all part of a conscious effort with the reality of looming riots.

    “There’s a lot of issues and there’s a lot of emotions, and we need to calm this down,” O’Mara said. “It needs to be tried in a courtroom, which is the only place it’s supposed to be tried, and that’s what I’m going to try help get done.”
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/12/justice/florida-zimmerman-lawyer

    “Part of our presence online is to discourage public speculation about the facts of the case.”
    http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/8-press-releases/7-why-social-media-for-george-zimmerman

    O’Mara wants to have “the conversation” his way.

    Lester continued at the end of the first bail hearing
    @2:10:50
    http://www.wral.com/news/video/11004815/#/vid11004815

    The judge is clearly aware of the “public” record and notes the concern for redacting names but Bernie goes on to talk about his and O’Mara’s discussion on what the public should not know about and discovery as a whole.

    And of course O’Maras recent comment that if he had it his way none of us would know anything.

    Of course given the Sunshine laws they couldn’t keep everything sealed so they agreed to let it out as slowly as they could and O’Mara has never posted anything in terms of actual discovery that hasn’t come through the State or by motion. The only time we really learn of anything new through him is if it’s snookerd in a motion somewhere like DeeDee being 18 at the time of her interview with Crump.

  10. Thanks, DMan, for taking the time to respond and include all of these specific instances.

    That said, I am still concerned about how negative comments about MOM might affect George. If that bond agreement really does restrict him from changing attorneys, he is in a box and cannot get out. He has enough to worry about without being concerned if his own damn attorney is doing his best to free him.

    That is why I chose to stay out of the controversy.

    • I don’t let it bother me. I’ll talk all the smack I want about O’Mara and the apologists will continue being apologists. Frankly I have found the reaction to the criticisms of O’Mara rather odd like it’s something that shouldn’t be done. I think O’Mara puts a spell on people, the little charmer he is, lolz, and they take offense. Some of it I agree with though, like I’ve said before, George for better or for worse is sticking with O’Mara, so be it, I’m not here to change his mind, he can do what he wants, so it kind of becomes this thing with “what’s the point”. Well, my point with this aspect anyway and probably my biggest gripe with O’Mara is that he has the power, ability, opportunity and clearly the time, to post discovery and said numerous times he would “post all public documents” in this case. Well, that hasn’t happened, clearly and so though he could be helpful he chooses instead to not be and allows Crump et al. to reign supreme with their bullshit lies and narrative(s).

      • “…and said numerous times he would “post all public documents” in this case. Well, that hasn’t happened…”

        Forgive my ignorance, but what “public documents” has he not posted?

        • ugh, really? It’s the spirit of transparency, a concept I’m sure you’re aware of. And given what started out as a very public case of which the State carried over into its website posting discovery and documents I would expect O’Mara…well…I’m not going to repeat it here. O’Mara said in the AP Dinner Q&A that if he handled discovery the way the state has with him then the “media”, public really, should take note because discovery should not be a game of hide and seek so the prosecutor can win a conviction or a defense can win a release, they are both supposed to be seeking justice. Well how in the hell can we do anything if we have what O’Mara really wants which is a complete closed process?

          Here’s a partial list:

          https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/missing-discovery/

          • Okay, thanks for the link.

            I was making the mistake of thinking of “public documents” as stuff that had actually been released to the public. My bad.

            • oh, lolz, I thought you were going a different way with that, oops, lol, well just think like I was talking generally, which I kind of was really anyway.

        • unitron – just as has been done in all other Fla. high profile cases, the MEDIA has released ALL the public documents & discovery to the public BECAUSE the public was interested in the case, the MEDIA Attorneys challenge any sealed documents because their viewers were interested, The media isn’t interested in this case so they don’t bother providing the documents to their viewers, they don’t care about the sealed documents, not one Media Outlet Attorney has challenged any sealed document that I know of. If some are unhappy about sealed documents, they could contact Orlando Media, that is who CHALLENGES to get documents unsealed. It’s not MOM’s responsibility to release documents or provide a website but he has shared tons of documents, unheard of for a Criminal Def Attorney to do, it’s not his responsibility & I’ve never before seen it done.. I can’t think of any other cases, or any attorneys, in Fla. that have ever provided anything to the public, it’s the MEDIAs job, and I have followed 5 high profile cases in the last couple of years. MOM shouldn’t have said he would provide public documents if he didn’t have time, but his plate has been full for over a year as well as West and they haven’t drawn a salary. Some have expectations that I have never seen placed on other attorney’s in these high profile cases. I don’t know if this is the first Fla. case many have followed \ and they don’t understand whose responsibility it is for them to get to read information, but MOM doesn’t owe bloggers information to read, he has done so as a courtesy, but it continues to never be enough. IF you had ask Baez to post some documents for the public to view he would have quickly told you to kiss his ass, that wasn’t his job.

          The problem is, the bloggers are interested, BUT the MEDIA IS NOT & apparently their viewers don’t see it as a priority either or they would provide the coverage and information! Although this is considered a “high profile case.” is it really? High profile cases in FLa. are followed closely by MEDIA, all of the discovery is posted on ALL the local TV Stations as well as the OS, Legal Analyst debate, investigative reporters dissect the case, but it hasn’t been done in this case and if not for MOM, how many documents would you have seen and from whom? Who would post all the information & discovery etc. except the OS? The Media doesn’t waste their time on MOTIONS filed, responded to, etc.

          There are no attorney’s standing in line to defend GZ that I know of, working for over a year at no salary is something most people couldn’t suck up or remotely consider. If GZ was unhappy he could get a public defender, thus far, he hasn’t chosen to do so.

          • Your post, addressed to me, sounds a whole lot more like a reply to diwataman’s parent post than one to my reply to it.

              • If someone wants to defend O’Mara from my attack on him, that’s fine, but it sort of requires me to actually have attacked him first, and I don’t understand what would lead anyone to the conclusion that I had.

            • unitron, your right, I started out addressing a short comment to you, but it was more in response to diwataman I guess. I remain surprised at the expectation the public has on MOM, the fact is, he owes no one anything. It’s frustrating following murder cases in which you can’t see any evidence, like in most States, I have really enjoyed and learned a lot following cases in FLa. I guess the Sunshine Law has made them more interesting as you can see the discovery & know what to expect at trial, plus, Fla. has some sensational cases.

          • I’ll tell you the same thing I told Nettles. Quick making excuses for O’Mara. If he didn’t want to engage in these aspects then he should not have done and said the things he has. O’Mara wants to control the entire conversation. He want’s to control what you get, how you get it and how you should talk about it. This bullshit excuse I hear over and over again about not having time to post discovery is just that, bullshit. Is it really a difficult task to post a photo of the Skittles?

            The media is not interested? Have you lost your mind? Not a high profile case? Ah, how many local cases get the President of the United States involved? What, this and the other “racist” case huh? Maybe Obama should have George over for a beer, oh, wait no, that would violate George’s bond in too many ways.

            Your other excuses are lame as well. So because O’Mara took the case for free for a while he shouldn’t do what he partakes in? That makes no sense. And if you recall George was given the opportunity to have his entire case paid for, so clearly there was interest in that arena.

            Okay so O’Mara posts some motions and notices of depositions, okay, kudos for O’Mara on that. Now can we post something we can fight with? Or is that just creating too much fervor in a case that is already beset with that?

            Lastly, what of the people who donate? Should they not be informed? Has O’Mara not made an effort to plea for donations? And what, they don’t have the right then to assure things are being handled correctly? They should just give their money and shut up?

            • No, I certainly haven’t lost my mind, this is NOT a high profile case COMPARED TO MANY that have been tried before it in Fla., I compare this to other cases I followed there, if you haven’t followed other high profile cases in Fla., you have nothing to compare it to as your comment reflects. If this were a high profile case in Orlando, EVERY MEDIA OUTLET would provide ALL the discovery, every Motion, every response, you wouldn’t be dependent on MOM’s site for most of your information, but the MEDIA isn’t providing it. Media outlets, in high profile cases, CHALLENGE sealed documents and are usually successful in having them released to the public, that hasn’t happened in this case although it has happened in other high profile cases in Fla. because of public interest. You could go to several media outlets now to piece meal the information together on this case, but it could be days old before you got it all. MOM conveniently, as a courtesy has provided it, most appreciate it, I do. Obama spoke out on this case over a year ago, because Obama shoots his mouth off about a case he knows nothing about or has the facts doesn’t mean a lot, Obama hasn’t spoken of this case since that I know of.

              MOM was nuts to provide a website that post information for bloggers to complain about. No good deed goes unpunished, IF he had done nothing, there would be nothing to complain about as far as his website. I’m not complaining about the site, MOM owes me nothing, I appreciate his efforts. Since you find so much fault with MOM, do you have alternative outlets to access ALL the information MOM is providing? If I disliked him as much as your comment indicates, I wouldn’t bother with anything he provided, I’d get it somewhere else if I could find it.

              I am not making excuses for MOM, nor do I see the criticism of him at times as fair. Could you donate your time for someone else for over a year, and it will be closer to a year and a half without ANY salary, if you can’t, why criticize MOM? It’s easy to sit back and criticize without all the facts, but I can’t imagine the stress and frustration this cases encompass on a daily basis for MOM/West. I’m frustrated just reading about it, I can’t imagine all the information we don’t know about they have to deal with to prepare for hearings and continue to try to get discovery. This case would cost close to 1 million dollars to defend, of course GZ could have a public defender and they too are free, you’d really be unhappy about that as they would want GZ to take a plea.

              I do agree the Donation account should have been more open, especially to those that donate. With GZ telling SZ to “pay off Sam’s club and other credit card debt,” imo, this might not be popular with those donating that are coping with their own credit card debt. imo, it would have been better to have had 2 separate donation accounts, one for GZ & SZ ‘s living expenses and one for the defense fund. The monies for the defense fund would be easy to disclose, most people understand the high cost of litigation, experts. But since the 2 are merged, one can’t be disclosed without the other, but an accountability should be forthcoming.

              • Why don’t you be specific so people can get an idea of what you are talking about; what “other cases”. And “High profile” is a loose concept.

                You seem to be of the mindset that if it weren’t for O’Mara we wouldn’t know anything. It’s amazing how you can forget the history in this case. Every piece of evidence that was released, including George’s receipt at the jail commissary, was national news and spread like wildfire. I don’t recall any case in the media being concentrated on by so many media outlets for so long to such a degree of manipulation. Sure they covered other cases heavily but this case has gone through all levels of government from the SPD up to the oval office. This case has a hell of a lot more riding on it then the Jodi Arias case or Casey Anthony case. This case has been covered continuously since the beginning and we haven’t even gotten to trial yet. How many other cases do they cover every single motion that’s filed even before it goes to court? How many pretrial hearing have you seen in those other cases?

                The media has argued in court a few times now so I don’t know what you’re talking about there.

                I’d rather he done nothing than what he has done. The State was releasing stuff just fine without him, unless you forgot about that as well.

                What the hell does O’Mara donating his time have anything to do with anything? Why criticize him? Because I can and will. I’ll be critical of anyone I want in this case. O’Mara doesn’t get some automatic exception because he took the case for free for a while.

                I can easily imagine the info we don’t know, so what.

                Let me clarify this, George had the option to get his entire defense paid for from “someone” if Baez was allowed to be counsel as well as whoever George chose, be it at the time was O’Mara. I’m not talking about the State paying for it or having a PD although he has that option as well as defending himself without representation.

                Let me clarify this as well, I think that the many thousands of people who have donated, many of those comment here and on the treehouse, deserve to know what’s going on in this case and have a right to be a part of it. I’m not talking about merely knowing what the money is spent on. They did that anyway.

                Regardless, you are making excuse for O’Mara as my criticism are quite valid and you try to excuse them with notions of O’Mara giving his time away for free for now, that he doesn’t have time, that this case isn’t high profile, that he files some motions and notices. None of which address my criticisms.

                • D-Man stated: You seem to be of the mindset that if it weren’t for O’Mara we wouldn’t know anything.

                  D-Man – It is not “mindset,” this is a fact: IF MOM didn’t provide the information he does on his website, how many days would it take you to get it from the local Orlando Media who is barely covering this case since it’s not a priority in their reporting? Of course you would know something, but how long would it take? How many sources would you have to search to find information? The local MEDIA isn’t providing much, if some do, it isn’t all the documents or the entire document. I ask you what alternative sources you have for getting ALL the information on the case, you might find some information, but not everything that most of us want? OS will consistently have something, but not everything, nor does any other local outlet in Orlando. WFTV, the biggest and leading TV Station in Orlando rarely has anything on the case. MOM’s website provides the latest information and is easily accessible & you can count it, the Orlando Media you can’t.

                  D-Man stated:
                  Sure they covered other cases heavily but this case has gone through all levels of government from the SPD up to the oval office. This case has a hell of a lot more riding on it than the Jodi Arias case or Casey Anthony case. This case has been covered continuously since the beginning and we haven’t even gotten to trial yet. How many other cases do they cover every single motion that’s filed even before it goes to court? How many pretrial hearing have you seen in those other cases?

                  D-Man – It is your opinion that this case has more riding on it than Jodi Arias or Casey Anthony. imo, there was no greater tragedy than the murder of an innocent 2 1/2 yr. old child by her mother. The coverage in GZ’s case has not remotely had the coverage of Arias or Anthony. KC’s case had EVERY single Motion, Response, or complaint heard in hearings held EVERY Friday in Judge Perry’s courtroom, after arguments, the time was used to go over outstanding discovery, any problems, and scheduling issues, all televised on HLN. EVERY HEARING was covered by ALL the Legal Analyst in Orlando, Legal Analysts had blogs contributing on the Motions and arguments, Legal Analyst were interviewed BEFORE Motions were argued, Analyst predicted which Motions would be denied, and after the hearing, it was discussed as to the effect the Motion would have on trial. ALL the local Orlando MEDIA provided this information with their own analyst. That has not been done in GZ’s case, it has been done sparsely. Thats what I meant when I said if you had followed other cases in Fla. you could compare as to how little the Media has provided on the case.

                  Bob Ward was a high profile case on the murder of his wife was covered by all the Orlando Media & Nationally as well, the Billingsly Murders, wealthy parent’s of 8 adopted special needs children consistently stayed in local and National News, Adam Kaufman accused of murdering his wife and was referred to as the “suntan murder.” Kaufman had a million dollar defense team, the CSI Tech had an affair with the lead Detective, the Prosecutors did a terrible job and should have never brought the case to trial, Kauffman was found NOT Guilty & the case was an embarrassment to the State of FLa., all of these cases were featured locally/Nationally, on 48 hours/Dateline, etc. Recently the case of John Goodman, the multi millionaire that hit a college kid with his Bently and left him to die, then tried to adopt his lover as his child to defraud millions from his biological children. ALL high profile, ALL covered locally and Nationally.

                  D-Man stated: The media has argued in court a few times now so I don’t know what you’re talking about there

                  D-Man – the operative word from your comment is is “a few times.” HOW MANY documents are sealed in this case? More than a few.

                  D-Man stated: What the hell does O’Mara donating his time have anything to do with anything? Why criticize him? Because I can and will. I’ll be critical of anyone I want in this case. O’Mara doesn’t get some automatic exception because he took the case for free for a while.

                  D-Man – you are dismissive of the loss of earnings for both MOMWest, not many attorneys do it because they can’t afford it, overhead goes on in an attorney’s office as well as payroll, whether money is coming in or not. MOM/West have not “donated their time for awhile” as you state, it will be close to a year & a 1/2 hopefully when the verdict is in, that’s a hell of a long time without a salary, that is hardly “a while” as you suggest imo. You are right, you can criticize MOM or anyone else for any reason, you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. You see things one way with MOM, some of us see it differently, both of us are entitled to our own opinion.

                  D-Man shared: I’d rather he done nothing than what he has done. The State was releasing stuff just fine without him, unless you forgot about that as well.

                  D-Man – IF the Orlando MEDIA was covering all the aspects of this case as you suggest they do, you could get it off their sites but they don’t. The MEDIA provided ALL of the information in KC’s case, you got EVERYTHING from any local MEDIA outlet in Fla. you wanted, and everything was covered in the National News. I still don’t understand why you continue to complain about MOM’s site & don’t see that he doesn’t have to provide it. Take the time after the hearing on Tuesday and see what the Orlando Media provides.

                  D-Man stated; I can easily imagine the info we don’t know, so what.

                  D-Man – we can ONLY form our opinions on what is known in the case, information we don’t know will shape the trial just as the known.

                  D-Man stated:
                  Let me clarify this as well, I think that the many thousands of people who have donated, many of those comment here and on the treehouse, deserve to know what’s going on in this case and have a right to be a part of it. I’m not talking about merely knowing what the money is spent on. They did that anyway.

                  D-Man – Absolutely everyone has a right to be a part of this case, everyone has a right to express their opinion, no one has said differently. There should be an accountability for the money donated as I clearly stated, there is no doubt. You are entitled to your criticism, your opinion, as is everyone else following the case.

                  D-Man stated: Let me clarify this, George had the option to get his entire defense paid for from “someone” if Baez was allowed to be counsel as well as whoever George chose, be it at the time was O’Mara. I’m not talking about the State paying for it or having a PD although he has that option as well as defending himself without representation.

                  D-Man – GZ made the choice to have MOM represent him, he can choose tomorrow to have someone else, but there has been no indication that GZ or his family is dissatisfied with the representation GZ has received from MOM/West. It’s unimportant if bloggers like MOM or not, our butts aren’t on the line, he doesn’t work for us. It is important that GZ/SZ & their family are comfortable with the representation GZ is receiving, apparently, they are. Mrs. Z’s open letter indicated she is confident in the case.

                  D-Man stated:
                  Regardless, you are making excuse for O’Mara as my criticism are quite valid and you try to excuse them with notions of O’Mara giving his time away for free for now, that he doesn’t have time, that this case isn’t high profile, that he files some motions and notices. None of which address my criticisms.

                  D-Man – because I don’t agree with your criticism, doesn’t mean I am making excuses. You are entitled to criticize MOM all you want, some agree and some don’t. You stated how high profile this case is and you gave examples, I disagreed and stated the reasons. If this case is so high profile for Orlando, they should have all the documents provided at their sites, but they won’t. There will be some information, but not all of the information. This case has lost momentum for many reasons, Hornsby said “when the Media found out this was not a racial or hate crime, the Media moved on.” I agree with Hornsby. I’d like to see a lot more coverage of this case by Orlando Media, hopefully closer to trial they will cover it a lot more.

                  D-Man – we can agree to disagree, you see things one way, many of us see them differently. The bottom line is, GZ’s opinion of his defense is the only opinion that matters.

                  • This is such a distraction to anything I have said on O’Mara. None of what you say here addresses it. My criticisms are quite pointed and specific. For example see my comment above to Jordan.

                    https://diwataman.wordpress.com/the-nettles18-breaking-news-gz-open-thread/page-4-the-nettles18-breaking-news-gz-open-thread/#comment-11681

                    That right there is my biggest grip with O’Mara. My other one is his belief’s that are really no different than those who has put him in the position that he fights against, i.e. Capehart, Crump, etc. Do people not get that is also part of O’Mara’s objective in this case? That his supposed “singular objective” is of the criminal case of George Zimmerman also comes with this O’Mara objective? Or do we just ignore what we want about people to make ourselves feel better? You can’t just say “oh I disagree” and that somehow dismisses my claims, you have to deal with, accept it or argue it.

                    All this other stuff you talk about has nothing to do with that. It’s not a contest either and because you’re emotionally wrapped up in the Casey Anthony case it has clouded you assessment regarding the significance of the George Zimmerman case. It has clouded your assessment of simple facts of it as well. Every court hearing has been covered and streamed by numerous news agencies and we are no where near trial yet nor might we be for a long time.

                    Gee willikers, if people can’t handle criticism of O’Mara I’m sure they would love my take on George himself.

              • “Obama spoke out on this case over a year ago…”

                Because at a press conference about something entirely else, a reporter asked him about it, and he gave an answer that sympathized with parents over the loss of their child without taking a stance on who, if anyone, was at fault.

      • He’s cast no spell on me. I liken him to the same defense attorney’s in small town courts. They will tell their clients what a sweet deal they are being “given” by the DA, even when their client is innocent. After the plea has been taken, the DA gets to check off another conviction, the attorney gets to say “I got my client off of the offense he was charged with, then the two buddy up at the local bar together and toast their victories. Meanwhile, the client, who paid for a defense attorney to get him AQUITTED, is realizing he got the shaft!

        • LittleLaughter – your comment made me think of a movie in which the Criminal Defense Attorney got his client to take a deal from the DA to save his life, a young woman had been murdered. Long story short, the guy was innocent, the movie was “The Lincoln Lawyer.” Entertaining movie if you didn’t see it.

          My friends that are Attorney’s tell me they are all friends, just as we saw MOM/Crump make nice last night. I have no patience or tolerance for Crump and the nightmare he has made of GZ’s life. MOM has a reputation for being a gentleman, but I couldn’t have let it slide, I guess the analyst would say MOM is always professional.

          • arttart- I haven’t seen Lincoln Lawyer, but I will make a note to. With regard to how the DA’s and defense attorney’s stay buddy-buddy, it is in their respective interests to do so. “I’ll help ya out on this one and get this guy to take your plea offer, but you’ll help me when I need to get a plea for the next one I have that is guilty as heck and offer him a plea.” I know this all so well. Defense attorney says “this ADA is a good guy; he’s a good DA,” Then that said ADA comes out swinging, doesn’t hold up his end when in front of the judge. Defense atty is surprised and angry, but lets it slide, cause he’s gonna need that ADA in the future. They are all buddies, but never forget who is in the driver’s seat…it is the DA. Always. It’s kind of like the playground bully, or the arrogant high school jock. All the kids play his friend. He uses them and occassionally throws them a bone for their loyalty.

    • money- Would this be one of the phrases that bothers you?

      “It is understandably dangerous ground to tread upon the trauma a family suffers when a son is lost, but that loss cannot counter the common sense application of our well founded and necessary rules of evidence.”

      Who ever wrote the motion acknowledges the loss, but goes right into defending the rules of evidence. Because the family lost a son, that doesn’t mean that GZ’s rights should be throw out or aside.

      Remember this whole media charade from Crump, the Martin parent’s etc. was all based on “emotion.” They never cared about the facts or evidence as that would not grab the hearts of the masses they wanted to snag. It is the very same ploy used by those that claim that it is “all for the children.” It’s a play for the heartstrings of those with compassion and sympathy and kindness, with the children or TM not the main agenda at all. How could you be so cold hearted to vote against this bill when it is for the children? How could you be so cold hearted to not feel so sorry for these parents who lost their future astronaught, who was so sweet and innocent, and only had tea and skittles, while they do everything in their power to keep the true character, personality and shaky records of the true person hidden.

      I’m beginning to understand why the O’Mara/West team will give up some sympathetic comments or phrases. They are not cold hearted, but George’s interests will be supported in the representation of him. Yeah, I’d love to hear the defense say these idiots who produced this thug are trying to cash in on his death, but they are clearly taking the high road. I have no problem with that, as long as they keep pushing and forcing the legal issues. IMO, they accomplished making Crumo look like the retarted unintelligent fool that he is in this motion. They called some of Crump’s assertions “nonsensical.” So much goes for the media event picture of congeniality between Crump and O’Mara. O’Mara was likely thinking you poor stupid fool, I won’t challenge you to a duel right now, we’ll do that in the courtroom.

      • Yes, that and others. In my opinion, such statements have no place in official court documents and should be reserved for press releases or engagements. Either the case law supports the motion or it does not, the court docs are not the place for attempts at politically correct double talk. “I hate to say this; but….” is not necessary in these filings, imo.

  11. Bernie has a problem with the “internet trolls” which surely doesn’t include Weiner and Stutzman, and a few others. They speak for the state, and often print info. long before anyone else knows about it. Bernie most obviously has a problem with not getting enough info. from O’Mara?West about how he is going to move forward with the immunity portion of the case. Bernie is in the dark about whatever O’Mara/West plan to do. He hates that, and is throwing hissy fits because he wants the game plan already. Bernie has no clue as to what discovery the defense may have, or not have. IMO the defense has much more information than anyone knows about. I prefer to keep Bernie guessing, and then slam him with evidence after evidence, that he won’t have any time to prepare for. When Bernie is hit with anything by surprise, he loses it completely. I am not so curious about what O’Mara/West have in hidding, as I am awaiting his head to be bouncing off the walls as his case crashes and burns. Why should the defense give away all their secrets, on their website, or elsewhere, which Bernie, or his staff read religiously, and give Bernie time to prepare a defense against that evidence? Isn’t their some kind of saying about holding your cards close to your chest. Bernie is losing it because he doesn’t know what kind of hand O’Mara/West are holding.

    • I just don’t see what case the State is going to put on. If they go forward with the trial they are going to be totally humiliated. They have nothing to argue and prove this charge. Not even close.

      • I agree Nettles. It seems that this is still going on because the state has dug themselves into such a deep hole, they can’t crawl themselves out at this point. As I’ve said, they have been provided with many off ramps, but they refused to turn the wheel. They can say that Crump, who found the star witness, wasn’t completely honest with them. They can say that they were unaware of the lead detective falsifying his police reports. They choose to beat themselves on the head, paddle their own behinds, and like the energizer bunny still keep on going.

        It would seem to me that they would have to go with their own PCA at least to a degree. They would have to stick with GZ profiling TM, following him when he was told not to, and/or proving somehow that GZ threw the first punch. All of those items will be so blown out of the water at trial that Bernie will pray that the floor opens beneath his feet and swallows him. How will they discount GZ’s injuries, and the fact that TM only had some scrapes on his knuckles? How will they show profiling when GZ had called in suspicious people many many times, which the defense will undoubtedly show? How can they prove that GZ followed, or continued to follow TM when he answers the NEN operator with OK after them saying we don’t need you to do that?

        I say that it is still in the air if a trial ever takes place. I’m putting my money on the defense asking for a continuance tomorrow, and the judge granting it, or would they have had to file a motion to make that request.

        • “…and the fact that TM only had some scrapes on his knuckles?”

          The autopsy lists an abrasion to the side of one finger in the area between knuckles, but no damage to any of the knuckles themselves.

          • Thanks, I’m sure you are correct. My point is that TM didn’t have the first mark on him indicating that GZ hit or attacked him in any way. OTOH, GZ had a head full of scrapes, cuts, eggs and injuries including a broken nose. Let the state try to say that it was not proven by xrays that his nose was broken. Hand the jury the “cleaned up” version of the picture of what his nose looked like that night.

        • I wonder why this is the last criminal trial for this TCJ? A TCJ can convict a Ham Samwich of being a Chicken Samwich if one wants to. The system is based on an unbiased court. So far one has been tossed. It is awful fishy.

      • It appears they are going to try the case based on emotion, hyper-bowl,exageration, and lies. Based on the number of sheeple in this country, I fear those tactics will be enough for a jury of just 6 to find him guilty. I’m afraid they will ignore the facts and evidence of this case and prefer the dramatic pontification of the State. I fear we will all be shaking our heads, wondering how in the world they could have just glossed right over the evidence. I pray I am wrong, but I think my optimism fell off and was run over by a semi.

        • I get the sense that most think this will end in an acquittal. Even the State and the family. It’s almost always the first question they get. How will you handle it if GZ is acquitted? They ask that because looking at the discovery, an acquittal is strongly favored.

          The State is in jeopardy of losing the public’s trust, if they take their case before the cameras and a courtroom. They’ve got nothing.

          • I hope you are right, but I caution, never underestimate the power of the momentum once the judicial bureaucracy gets into motion. You get an acquittal only if you get a decent jury.

              • Yes, jury selection is everything. I wish Jose Baez was in on that selection process.

                • Right. Don’t worry both Bernie and O’Mara will assure there’s no racist white people, I know that’s redundant as racism only pertains to whites, on the jury. They will have to use their combined experience of “fighting against racial bias[ah, errm, white people] in the justice system” to spot the covert ones though. As long as they cover that angle George will be fine. /sarc off

          • Well consider me as not part of the most, George will be convicted because if he’s not well then clearly there were some covert racists on the jury because racist means white person and they will have to retry it, lolz. Also the state never gained my trust in the first place and the state as it pertains to Corey and Bernie, well, pfft, ugh yeah no, if there’s supposed to be some rules they follow to keep the trust of the people of the judicial system, and yes I realize there are as I’ve read the Florida Bar stuff, well they clearly went against that a long time ago and Crump, well ah gee, he’s the complete antithesis to that but that’s okay, he’s black so we at the bar will give him awards instead.

            • Hell Dman, you can go back at least as far as the Anderson case, where the institution workers were exonerated of murder, or whatever they were charged with. Crump was representing the mother of the dead kid, and Bondi was on the prosecution team at the time. Crump was denied the ability to sue each and every member of the staff. He swore that would never happen again. It was an injustice. Charlie Crisp went to the legislature and got approval to pay Crump millions, 5 I believe. It was a successful shakedown. I don’t know for sure, but I’d bet the staff members were all or mostly all white. That set a precedent, but this time had to be the really big time fight for black justice, or the really big payout. Like all shakedown artists, or extortionists, the payout demands keep getting bigger and bigger for those like Crump to shut up and go away.

              Gov. Scott opened the door to the next shakedown, when he folded in the face of the “Ima gonna rioters,” and met the demands of Crump and Sharpton to fire that evil white corrupt dude Wolfinger, who was in cahoots with Lee to sweep the charges against the racist bigoted creep GZ under the rug. And don’t forget it was GZ’s father, the so-called former “judge” who used his influence to get his son off. All this after GZ was the one to bring the racist SPD officers into focus for not arresting an officer’s son who beat Sherman Ware, and at least Crump knew those facts right up front. I’ll never forget Sharpton going on the radio and saying that he didn’t think that the Gov. would “do the right thing” but he was OK with his appointment of Corey, but he was going to keep a close eye on what happened.

              Either the sun is just much too hot in Fla., or they have dumped something in the drinking water. LOL

            • Unless they can get 6 of 500 jurists that are PC Progressives it will hang, if it gets that far. PC will infect the jury. As well as fear. This case should never go to a jury. There is nothing for them to decide other than their political preference. The objective evidence is all for a justifiable homicide. Plus Ultra all the jurors will be in fear of their lives if they vote not guilty. How could any black vote not guilty and return to the culture. They would be forever branded as a traitor to the cause.

              • I am unclear whether jurors votes are made public. I know their names are. Suppose there are two whites, two blacks, and two white hispanics. If one white (without guilt) and one white Hispanic hang the jury, are the names released of those that hung the jury?

                Another question. Will there be choices of lesser offenses that the jury can find him guilty of? For example can they find him guilty of manslaughter? Are several choices always given to the jurors?

              • They definitely need to try and stay away from parents with teens. Most can’t imagine their little darlings doing what Trayvon did and that emotional trigger clouds a lot of the poor judgement I’ve seen online. Piers Morgan, said to Robert Jr., I’m a father of two teens and I can’t imagine how I’d feel if some guy followed them around. That’s been repeated a billion times by parents.

                • Those are parents who live in an de facto GATED community, insulated, uninformed and far away from the cultural norms of inner city hoods/ schools such as Miami Gardens.
                  Denial and ignorance is not an excuse.

          • While jury trial are always unpredictable, I have to agree. To me very telling are the Charging Affidavit, which was full of terms like profiling not illegal, followed not illegal, confrontation without saying who started it. Then the testimony by the Lead Investigator at the Bond Hearing, were after a month, he flailed badly in the questioning. To me if after a month you still have not even looked at the exculpatory evidence to discounted, means they were still trying to find enough to charge.

            Bernie will do his best to discredit the witness similar to what a defense attorney will, and attempt to re-enforce what little evidence he does have, He knows he is in a pickle. He was hoping to grill GZ at an Immunity Hearing and bolster his case, now that seems is not going to happen, so he wants to know what the defense is planning in other to counter. Legal strategy is attorney work product, will Judge Nelson, reverse herself, after ruling that Crumps works product was protected?

            • He wants to go after Zimmerman for the minor discrepancies in his many statements. If GZ does not testify and remains a potted plant how will he do it? I think if the DCA allows this fiasco to continue GZ should be a potted plant.

              • I predict BDLR will level GZ in opening and closing statements, and the jury will include all his anti-GZ non-evidence in their deliberations.

                • That ain’t how it works. If he can’t provide any proof of his opening. He will be destroyed. But the thing is the jury now. Could a black afford to vote not guilty? How could one return to the culture if they did?

                  • At the risk of being hammered for mentioning the Casey Anthony case, what I said BDLR will do is exactly what Jose Baez did … and it worked. Baez presented an outlandish death scenario for which there was zero evidence and did not back up his opening statement at any point during his case in chief. According to a couple of juror statements after the trial, Baez’s opening statement accusations against George Anthony are in large part why Casey walked.

                    • janc1955 – you are exactly correct, you don’t have to prove your opening statement or even have evidence to support it, any story or theory can be presented in the opening statement, NO EVIDENCE has to support the theory, those that watched KC’s trial watched it happen first hand. Baez spun the most outrageous lies in his opening statement without a scintilla of evidence to support his theories, even accusing George of sexual abuse with nothing to support it, nor did KC testify. The Jury took Baez’s opening statement as evidence, Baez’s alternative theory and story helped KC walk, KC didn’t need to testify, Baez testified for KC in opening & closing statements. When Media interviewed jurors, many said how much “they admired Baez, how interesting he was.”

                      The same can be pulled by Corey or BDLR in this case, it will depend on how masterful they are at weaving a believable theory and painting GZ as an over zealous neighborhood watchmen and an unlikeable person, even though they have no idea who threw the first punch, some jurors may buy into the States theory. How sympathetic will the jury be to Sybrina/Tracy, a big factor. If the trial were only about evidence, imo, GZ wouldn’t have many challenges, but trials are about more than evidence, people bring their baggage & life experiences into the jury room, and jurors can believe anything they want even when it is not supported by evidence. It would seem voir dire will be difficult, many say cases are won or lost then despite evidence presented by either side.

                • BDLR will paint GZ in the most unfavorable light bringing every possible negative fact allowed, portray TM as only walking to the store/minding his own business, followed by over zealous GZ w/his concealed gun. Played out time and again in trial.

                  • But as you said yourself art, jurors liked Baez for whatever reason. From the very little I saw, Baez remained calm and appeared to be in control at all times. Bernie is a very obnoxious person, and has been very unlikable since the first Bond hearing. A tiger doesn’t change his stripes. He is who he is. He will wind up setting GZ free just because of his obnoxious personality. He would continue his shouting, arm waving, spastic jumping up and down, and will have the jury wondering if he isn’t the one on trial trying to defend himself and his unprovable positions. Bernie does have the ability to make it all about him. I’m still holding out hope for no trial.

                    • pinecone – you are right about Baez, the jury thought he had likable attributes and was honest, heartfelt, & believed what ever he said; You too are right that BDLR is obnoxious and unlikable & that’s the least of it, I can imagine just what an ass he acted like holding up the depo of DD for 5 hours. BDLR seems to have an impulse control disorder, he seems unable to act appropriately or professionally and doesn’t seem to care. BDLR has difficulty holding his tongue instead, shooting his mouth off as he did in the response to MOM w/his insults, BUT, I wonder if he has a Courtroom Act? I can easily see where BDLR has the ability to offend of not some, maybe all of the jury with his tantrums, that will be good for GZ!

                      Yep, he too is self absorbed, just as he was noticeably pissed off about the immunity hearing MOM postponed, LOL, he still hasn’t let it go. We’ll hear about it again tomorrow!

                  • art tart: I think Bernie in his OS will first and foremost assert that GZ is a vengeful racist who was actively looking to kill a young black boy, so jury members will immediately emotionally distance themselves from George so as not to be labeled racist themselves. I think BDLR will use his OS and his closing to try to win his case — and he’ll go balls to the walls with it — because he doesn’t have to back it up with actual evidence. It’s all he’s got, as far as I can see. And I can also see it working just like the Scheme Team narrative has worked so well against GZ for over a year.

              • The state will put on its case. O’Mara will cross examine the state’s witnesses, and perhaps offer some rebuttal witnesses. Then O’Mara will file a motion for immunity, including a sworn statement from Zimmerman. It is my belief that Zimmerman does not need to take the stand in order to produce evidence of self defense. Bernardo will go apoplectic without an opportunity to make a mountain out of a molehill (inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s accounts). Who knows what the cat-lady Nelson will do, except she has to decide the motion.

                • Is a motion for immunity the same as asking the court to dismiss the case? INAL but it would seem that if the judge allows the case to get that far, she would be reluctant to just throw it out until it reaches the jury for a verdict, unless something so outreageous comes out in trial. She likely doesn’t want anything to do with setting GZ free, and then getting death threats and whatever else. If the jury makes the decision, then he was found innocent or guilty by a jury of his peers. I seriously doubt that any one person is willing to take on that task. Crump is out there saying that what happens in this case will show how far we have come as a nation with civil rights, meaning GZ must be found guilty and sent to prison. Apparently Crump believes that civil rights only apply to the black race. Screw the rest. And BTW, give me my money.

              • Totally agree, let the BDLR attempt to prove the elements of the charge. What worries me is the attached Manslaughter that is attached to a Murder 2 charge, some in the jury might vote for that as a compromise.

                • bori- What I have been trying to figure out is how the charging options are listed to any particular jury. I’ve read that the defense can argue to add the option of self defense. I don’t know if that includes immunity from civil charges.

                  Hi Howie, waving. I understand from what I read that justifiable homicide, which you have been claiming this should be, does in fact subject the defendant to wrongful death lawsuits from the family of the deceased.

                  http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-law-self-defense-use-of-force.html

                  From reading the above link, it becomes very clear why the state is arguing the way they are. It is especially important to note that they are trying to prove that GZ started the incident that ended in TM’s death. They had to come up with DD, and her coached testimony, which obviously falls very short of proving diddly squat. She claims that TM addressed GZ first, but then she hears a bump and the grass when GZ attacked Trayvon, or something. As we know, it was absolutely critical that they find a DD in order to bring charges, and Crump delivered, sort of.

                  • Only the Judge rules on the Immunity issue, I believe. IIRC MOM said at one point that he would wait for the jury’s verdict before the Judge ruled on immunity.

      • To hear you say that is very reassuring, Nettles. I am a naturally self doubting person, and have asked myself many times “Is there something I’m missing here”. To have a person of your character and intellect see the same thing gives me hope. I have noticed that juries take their duty very seriously, and tend to home in on the facts. Casey Anthony, OJ, Rodney King, and Angela Davis all come to mind. They did not let popular opinion influence them. Hopefully, we will see the same on this case.

        • My above reply to Nettles didn’t go where i intended it to. Hope you can figure it out.

      • Nettles, I totally agree. I seriously can’t believe this hot mess is headed to trial. Whatever will the state do with the time they are allotted to put on their non-existent case?

    • I hope that crazy woman with a bad wig is not running all over the place squawking like a crazy chicken with a Mr. Microphone.. Those people are too much. Everything they say is always wrong.

    • What, no Nancy Grace with her studded black leather, whips and chains, and secret dungeons to host the show? LOL

  12. And in other news…Sybrina MsCandy Fulton, just changed her facebook status to “in a relationship” today.

  13. ” Is it really a difficult task to post a photo of the Skittles?”

    Assuming O’Mara himself has a copy of a photo of them (assuming a photo was taken), that would be one of, if not the, most boneheaded PR moves of the past few hundred centuries.

    If he released a copy of a photo with a package of Skittles with blood on them, he might as well add the caption “Innocent yooung boy gunned down by brutal racist” himself.

    • If there is a picture of the Skittles, it would have been taken by the SPD when they were measuring and photographing the scene that night. The Skittles, I understand, were in TM’s front hoodie pocket. Yes, I read that the Skittles package had TM’s blood on it. Wasn’t that in one of the forensic reports?

      • And once a picture of them gets out, expect “Blood On The Skittles” the single, and the album, and who knows what else.

        There is no upside for the defense for that picture to get out, and plenty of downside.

        What’s the best pro-Zimmerman spin that could be put on it?

        “Well, it’s not all that much blood”?

        • He drank the purple Skittles with a side of Ice Tea. BYW, we haven’t seen the full tox report. Hmmm. I wonder if the defense had the additional tox studies done to determine if any designer drugs, or other ingredients were in his system. I believe the defense got TM’s twitter and facebook records. Doesn’t TM talk about looking for codene (sp) or something in his social media?

    • What kind of tips you looking for? I would suggest starting early because unless O’Mara’s late again, lolz, they start sharply and sometimes a bit before. Make sure you got the correct time zone. If you don’t have much practice technically and all with that recorder now would be a good time to do that and make sure audio and such is working well. I would also make sure you have various sources open at the same time as sometimes one site has trouble or has the live feed going earlier than the rest.

      • Thanks. I practiced recording a live stream tonight and it worked. I got stumped in what format and size to save it as. As it’ll be posted on youtube, there is a youtube option there so I’m going to assume that one will work? Great tip on having more than one site available just in case. I’ll do that.

    • In addition to other items, I picked up this one sentence paragraph in Pipitone’s article.

      “In other cases, inconsistencies in a defendant’s statements to police and others has been enough for appellate courts to uphold a second-degree murder conviction where defendants claim self defense.”

      Wasn’t it Serino that first brought up the “inconsistent statements” claim from his interrogation of GZ? Now we know that Serino’s police reports were falsified. His attorney, Baez sent what seems to be exculpatory evidence, or the fact that he has those documents, to the prosecutor and defense. Gilbreath brought up GZ’s inconsistent statements in the first bond hearing, apparently long before his knowledge of Serino’s complicity and corruption.

      From everything I’ve read, I am trying to remember whatever statements GZ may have made, that would change the now released factual evidence, and that would be outweighed by a guy talking, who has just been through a very stressful incident, being required to remember every blade of grass, or footstep that he took during the incident, and to the second?

      • That would have to be weighed against Gilbreath’s admission on the stand that there was no evidence to contradict GZ’s version of what had transpired.

    • In the Stutzman article, good ole Rene is on a roll. It’s interesting that Crump very recently called the case a “civil rights” case. Erick Holder has adopted the term “civil rights” lately to explain all of the Obama agendas, including calling illegal immigrants, illegally crossing the border, as it being their civil right to do so. Rene includes in her article that the case is what has become the “civil rights cause celebre.” Gee, I wonder where Rene is getting her marching orders on what to print?

      She also includes, early in the article that GZ’s HOA paid the TM parents to resolve a wrongful death claim. I thought that the HOA admitted no liability, they have removed their decision from any guilt or innocense of GZ, and that they were settling just as go away money. She is sure to include the “wrongful death” statement to make it appear that the HOA and GZ were in fact guilty of a wrongful death. That seems to be the same intent of Crump with filing a civil document with the criminal court. Is she trying to help Crump, and the state, with her assertions? Is she making an effort to try to help pollute the jury pool that will soon be decided? Isn’t wrongful death the polar opposite of self-defense?

      Open season on the vigilante murderer of the innocent little child is now on again.

  14. Nettles18 (sorry, there was no Reply button below your post): You said “I got the impression the State was staying away from calling George a racist. Recall the word association game with Gilbreath in the April 20th hearing. Mr. O’Mara said when I say “profiling” what comes to mind? Gilbreath wouldn’t bite. He said criminally profile.”

    I don’t know how they can stay away from it at trial, though, if they’re going to try to convince a jury to convict GZ. What else do they have? This case would’ve never seen the light of day if not for the white racist angle. If GZ isn’t a “white” racist, then he’s just a NW volunteer who called LE on what looked like a suspicious character wandering around his (somewhat crime-riddled) neighborhood, and in doing so sustained a beat down (of which there is clear evidence) so severe he was forced to use shoot his attacker to save his own life.

    I suppose BDLR could try to create a version of what happened between GZ and TM that follows the “stalked, pursued, shot like a rabid dog” narrative, but unless GZ is framed as a white racist, the entire narrative falls flat. What’s so incendiary about the narrative is the idea that an armed adult white racist male hunted down a black 17 year-old chile walking innocently through the neighborhood with a cold drink and candy for his “brother.” When you flush all the racist crap into the sewer, you’ve got a man trying to protect his neighborhood and getting beaten up in the bargain.

    I just don’t see how the state can make their dog hunt without the white racist angle.

    • I keep wondering how he’s going to explain a chase that ended about 25 yards from the truck. The timeline tells us they came together about 4.5 minutes after George left the truck. How is the State going to square that for the jury? Then we have the drink being in Trayvon’s pocket and the bag on the sidewalk where the assault happened. He carried it to that spot for 50 minutes in a bag and there decides to clear his hands. How does that State demonstrate that was a defensive move as GZ “walked quickly” up to him. (as per W8, it was a fast walk chase).

      • I wasn’t there, I don’t know what happened, but if George frisked Trayvon post-shooting, pulled the bag with the can inside it out of the hoodie pocket, pulled the can out of the bag, and then shoved the can back in the pocket leaving the bag to blow in the breeze, that also could account for the way things were found.

        And if the bag got wet in the rain, it might have increased the difficulty of opening it back up to put the can back inside.

        As far as I know it never occured to anyone to test the bag or the can for fingerprints, and no one has ever said anything one way or the other about whether the can was dented in any way.

        • Someone suggested the bag marked evidence #2 was not the same bag he carried the drink in. That would be one heck of a coincidence that the only garbage found in the crime scene was a bag from the same store that carried his drink in. But stranger things have been known to happen.

          • A double co-incidence, since we know the can was in a bag when he left the store, so to where did that first bag disappear?.

            Going out on a speculation/hypothetical/just for the sake of discussion limb here…

            If the can were “unbagged” preparatory to being used as a weapon, that would put the decision and the disposal of the bag pretty far back in time for Martin’s bag not to be around the area. Did Trayvon run all the way down to Brandy’s to put the bag into the recycling bin before returning to assault George? Is he an ecologically responsible mugger?

            if I were in his position, and if I wished to hit Zimmerman, and if I were going to use the can as a weapon with which to hit Zimmerman, I’d leave it in the bag, take the bag by the handles, and swing it hard, rather than bother taking it out of the bag and trying to hold the “made slippery by condensation” can in my bare hand.

            But then again, if it were me, I’d come up behind him silently and hit him on the back of the head with no warning, instead of conversing first, but I’m not a street fighting expert, and my can-fu is not irresistible.

            • One of my friends on facebook who believes TM was murdered, thinks that if indeed the drink was removed from the bag prior to fighting with the guy chasing him, that he absolutely, positively would have used the can as a weapon. I have always argued, that TM had loads of confidence in his street-fighting abilities and would want to have a bare-fisted fight with the nosy-parker.

              She believes had he been given the chance, the can would have been used as a weapon. The bag, marked as evidence number 2 is not the same bag that carried is drink.

              I believe she’s incorrect. 🙂

              • There is no reason to believe that there was premeditation on TM’s part to fatally hurt GZ, then there was on GZ’s part. TM may have been emboldened by the sight of a smaller pudgy GZ. Any TM decision to cut GZ down to size was likely an impulsive act by the teenager.

                • Well, there still the issue of the drink in the bag. Why carry it in the bag for 50 mintues and then free your hands? Where those two articles are found, leave no doubt, it wasn’t impulsive or I’d expect to find the bag and the drink strewn about the debris field.

                  • Once the can was removed from the bag, the bag would have been at the mercy of whatever wind there was, so we can’t be sure that where it was dropped was where it was found.

              • Ask her why, if Martin were going to use the can as a weapon, he would have taken it out of the bag first.

                  • Someone took it out of the bag, but as far as I know, no one has said that they witnessed who did it, or exactly when.

                • uni, also the bag could tear if swung too hard. Maybe he did this before and that was the result. He didn’t want to lose the drink he walked over a mile to get.

          • And that his 7-11 plastic bag is missing. Nope, I refuse to believe that the 7-11 plastic bag which was maybe a foot away from George’s head was NOT the same 7-11 plastic bag that he had with him from the 7-11. Nope, I ain’t never gonna not believe that. (Oooh! A triple negative!)

            • I agree. One thing that struck me was the lack of garbage flying around outside. Everything marked wasn’t garbage and had a reason to be there. It’s appears to have been a tidy neighborhood.

          • It is in the police reports that one of the plastic bags was given to one of the officers, from a resident, brought out from his home, to use to stem the blood flow from the wound. That was included in one of the police reports.

            • That was the white Walmart bag, given by W13. It was evidence marker #3 I think. Evidence marker #2 was the 7-Eleven bag and it was found on the sidewalk behind W11’s house.

        • That would be absolutely impossible for George to try and extricate the can from the bag. TM was lying on it while it was inside and underneath his hoodie. That never happened.
          Many, many moths ago I said the either the can or the bags was used by Trayvon that night. Why else would there be a 7-11 bag on the walk just inches from where George’s head would have been? I also think it sucks that they weren’t tested; either the can for dents or the bag for stretched areas or George’s DNA.

          • “That would be absolutely impossible for George to try and extricate the can from the bag.”

            Just to be picky, the impossibility, or extreme improbability, would be George getting the can and bag combination.

            Once he had that, if he could get that, getting the can out of the bag would have been relatively easy.

            • I guess you just couldn’t hold it in any longer huh unitron. I recognized some of your earlier comments to be straight from what would be posted on Letherman’s site. With your later comments, and obvious irrationality, you have proven my earlier premonitions to be correct. You people just can’t help yourself, huh?

              • I’m guessing you missed what turned out to be my final post over there, and the reaction to it.

                I’m curious, though.

                What is it you find to be irrational in what I’ve said?

        • “I wasn’t there, I don’t know what happened, but if George frisked Trayvon post-shooting, pulled the bag with the can inside it out of the hoodie pocket, pulled the can out of the bag, and then shoved the can back in the pocket leaving the bag to blow in the breeze, that also could account for the way things were found.”

          Would that be before or after GZ was sucker punched in the face, and was having his head slammed into the cement? George “frisked Trayvon”? Isn’t that the kind of stuff they say at the Leatherman site?

      • For some reason I can’t imagine Bernie getting all caught up in tedious, pesky facts. He’s somehow going to try to ride the racialist emotional wave all the way through the trial, I think. If he starts discussing facts, he’s hosed.

        I personally hope the state tries to explain why a white racist rabid dog hunter out on the prowl looking for young black males to shoot calls the NEN and talks with the dispatcher as he tries to keep his “prey” in sight. I’ve never once heard of a stalker/cold-blooded murderer who called LE to get them to come witness the crime he was about to commit.

          • He’s got me stumped. I don’t see a case anyone near preponderance for the evidence never mind reasonable doubt. Maybe tomorrow we’ll see a preview.

          • About not liking BDLR and his style … for some reason that hasn’t affected the Traybots/lynch mob. The whole Scheme Team is hugely unappealing, yet mass allegiance to their false narrative designed to destroy Zimmerman persists to this day. Those of us who followed that other high profile Fla case which shall not be named were sure Baez would turn off the jury within moments of opening his mouth for the first time. Instead, they actually liked the mostly incoherent, lying little dude. I hope BDLR is an absolute trainwreck and turns off the jury. But I fear once he plays his race card, GZ is doomed. I can’t imagine MOM working up an appropriate level of indignation to fight back against the state’s accusations of racism.

          • Yes, but it can’t really be proven. It’s all just speculation. The things that suggest TM was the aggressor are #11 (others?), testifying the fight started near the T and moved south, George’s injuries, TM’s lack of them. and #6 testifying TM was on top. Application of some common sense says the guy on top without injuries isn’t the one screaming for help and therefore the screams are GZ’s. If MOM can hammer that home to the jury then anyone that listens to those screams will acquit. IMO

            • If possible, and I don’t think it is since as I understand it the state goes first, MOM needs to ‘train’ the jury to expect GZ to be the one screaming using stuff like I mentioned. Then when they listen it will hit them hard. If anyone can be found that hasn’t already heard it.

          • That’s what thinking was. I can’t come up up with any scenario where separating the can from the bag doesn’t end up with a pre-merited attack on TM’s part. Whether he used the bag to wrap his knuckles, (that’s my favorite theory) or used the can as a weapon. Or used the bag to wrap and protect his phone while using it in his fist. George though he was using something to hit him beside his fists.

            Maybe instead of hearing grass, DD heard the phone being wrapped. Except that I don’t believe DD was on the phone with him that night.

            Still no matter what, any of those actions show that TM was preparing for a fight.

    • janc and all those who think that BLDR will try to show George as a racist, I have two words for you; Sherman Ware. If I were MOM/West I bring up George’s involvement with that case early and often. Make the jury believe that not only this is NOT about race but that George is the antithesis of being a racist.

      • Nettles- I am laughing at your use of “we.” “But what we can say for sure.” Whenever I say we to my husband in some circumstances, he immediately asks what I mean by this “we” stuff. He asks if I have a mouse in my pocket. He does not appreciate me speaking for him I guess. Too funny.

        • LOL, Diwataman gave me crap for that before. I’m suppose to just talk for myself. I did tell him sometimes I have to be told more than once. 😉

          I tend to think of us as a team. I know we aren’t. For as many of us as there are, there are that many opinions on what should be done. Thanks for pointing it out to me again before Diwataman did. We are in divorce proceedings. 😉 His feedback might not have been so gentle the next time.

  15. “Rene includes in her article that the case is what has become the “civil rights cause celebre.” ”

    Actually she says a civil rights cause celebre (it’s possible for there to be more than one at a time), and in the “civil rights community” it has become just that.

    “She also includes, early in the article that GZ’s HOA paid the TM parents to resolve a wrongful death claim. I thought that the HOA admitted no liability, they have removed their decision from any guilt or innocense(sic) of GZ, and that they were settling just as go away money. ”

    If the HOA, or their insurance carrier, paid to get a settlement or withdrawal of the claim, that’s resolving it.

    Regardless of lack of admission of liability, it still started out as a wrongful death claim. I’m not sure what else Stutzman could have called it without appearing to take sides or be editorializing.

    And considering that, as she says “Defense attorneys also want the judge to order the release of details about a $1 million-plus settlement…”, she could scarcely leave it completely unmentioned in a story about a hearing where it’s going to feature prominently.

    But thanks for drawing my attention to her mistake about it being Zimmerman’s HOA.

    The only people more angry with Stutzman for siding with the other side than Zimmerman supporters are Martin supporters, but the lead constantly changes back and forth between them.

  16. “But what we can say for sure, they weren’t in the grass as W8 said they would be.”

    Did the police or EMTs ever come out with a definitive statement about *exactly* where they were found, and whether they were still plugged into the phone?

    I only remember seeing stuff like “on or near the body”, which leaves a lot of wiggle room.

  17. They were definitely NOT in the phone. The “heart” phone was found 10′ south of where TM was atop of GZ sans earbuds. Meaning he either tossed it there or dropped on the way to or from Brandi’s. If either of the latter occurred then the DD conversation never took place.

    • So there’s no possibility that the phone fell out of his pocket?
      Was it the phone which was sans earbuds, or Martin?
      What about the larger of George’s flashlights, also found near the body?
      Did George toss it there, or did it fall from his pocket?

  18. You asked, “So there’s no possibility that the phone fell out of his pocket?” I said, “dropped on the way to or from Brandi’s.”
    You asked, “Was it the phone which was sans earbuds, or Martin?” I thought I was clear when I said, “The “heart” phone was found 10′ south of where TM was atop of GZ sans earbuds.” I should have written, “The “heart” phone, which was found 10′ south of where TM was atop of GZ, was sans earbuds.”
    You asked, “What about the larger of George’s flashlights, also found near the body?” This one’s easy, as I’ve explained the probable reason it was found where it was before. The flashlight was found about four feet south of where TM was atop GZ. Most likely the flashlight was in his LEFT hand as the keys which he dropped earlier were in his right (per video reenactment). Because he was on he back, it should have been found south of where he laid. Since they where found four feet away, it either flew from his hand while he was protecting himself or he may have even toss it aside.
    You asked, “Did George toss it there, or did it fall from his pocket?” Answered above. Because it was found four feet south of where the struggle was, I doubt it was in his pocket.

  19. Actually I was thinking more along the lines of “fell out of pockets during the struggle” for both the larger flashlight and the phone.

    It seems unlikely that Zimmerman would be walking around burdening his dominant hand with a non-working flashlight instead of havng given up on it working, stuck it in his jacket pocket, and gotten out the keychain light.

    • Needing sleep = late reply.

      The problem with thinking they fell out of the pockets during the struggle was their locations.

      TM’s phone could NOT have FALLEN out of his pocket during the struggle and land ten feet away. It’s just not possible. I doubt that he lost it either going to or coming from Brandi’s. He might have, but then that would mean he was NOT on the phone the minutes before the attack and that the whole DD thing is crap; more likely he tossed it southward during the struggle to free up his right hand.

      George’s flashlight may have fallen out, but very unlikely. It would have had to have rolled south 4 feet from where they were on the grass. That also meant that it would have been in his LEFT pocket put there by his LEFT hand.

      George, during the reenactment it showed that he reached with his RIGHT hand in his pocket to get his phone, which also held his keys/penlight (which BTW was on when they were found). That meant he was holding the larger flashlight in his LEFT hand. When TM hit him in his face he dropped his keys, yet held on to the larger flashlight and finally let go of it AFTER he went down either tossing it or dropping it and it rolling four feet away.

      I would imagine other scenarios, but for me this seemed to most likely.

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