June 17, 2013 GZ Trial/Jury Selection (Day 6) & Frye Hearing (Day 4)

What a stupid way to phrase this, “either side”, yeah right there have been so many protestors for George up until this point, gee I wonder where they’ve gone./sarc

huh, I don’t see any white people on the staff:

(updating throughout the day, again no guarantees for live commentary)

We finally know question #4#3
paraphrasing: Have you formed an opinion as to the guilt or innocence of George
Actually that is question #3
Question #4 Is “regardless of that opinion could you keep an open mind”.

Up Today:
H7 W/M
H10 B/M (dismissed/ can’t judge on religious grounds)
H13 W/F
H18 H/M (probably out/hardshipmaybe not out now, Defense seems to have rectified it)
H27 W/M (dismissed)
H29 W/M
H31 H/F (dismissed/hardship)
H35 W/F

Back Tuesday

Back Wednesday

shellie2 - Copy

Onto Frye hearing



136 thoughts on “June 17, 2013 GZ Trial/Jury Selection (Day 6) & Frye Hearing (Day 4)

    • Person shot, big bru ha ha, recakk George Zimmerman’s name, in paper a lot, community watch program, other person from Miami, young, visiting kin folks here, people wanted George to go to trial, otherwise don’t know why the protests, nuisance says juror, disrupting typical events in area, not that kinda issue, they can do what they want, not sure why such a to do out of it, govt can take care of itself.

      (George looks good, new suit, rested and awake )

    • Parents of TM made young man leave town due to behavioral problems, according to media.

      (Shellie, has some worry lines on forehead, looks concerned. George also come to think of it, dark circles under eyes, seems more serious sad than ever!)

      Would rather not be here, says juror, about George, doesn’t know where he is from, audio tapes, FBI experts, and elsewhere, judge was going to rule, case was also some syg kinda process, defense may use, dk syg legal aspect, no internet, could not say who the talking heads, outsiders were, coworkers talk about it occasionally, wife talks of it.

        • George: A look of listlessness, like he gives up, what’s the use of any of it. Not sure what’s going on, definitely dark circles under eyes like hasn’t slept. Tsk! Oh dear. And there’s so much more of this nightmare to get through.

    • Media anti gun bias, news report there was a struggle, discharge of firearm and boy was killed, TM was younger, 18 to 25, civil rights folks came in and there was a march, trying to get Sheriff’s office to arrest Mr. Zimmerman.

      Glad to see this:

  1. Was dismissed because he told Bernie, he can’t judge for religious reasons:

    • At least the court jesters are not trying to wrestle the religious objectors as they did the first few! sarc

  2. H 13 white female in 60’s, per Pipitone, middle aged per Belich

    (O’Mara and West sharing notes while she is talking)

    • news, what prompted Mr. Zimmerman to reach out, was TM walking away or toward him, why Mr. Zimmerman had a gun, was that a part of the community watch he was part of, remembers 911 call, heard more than once, per media, audio tapes in news recently, about who was calling for help, realize cannot consider if not allowed as evidence, photos of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries, no other info, might catch some news at 11pm, daughter and grandsons live with her, so after work stays busy, no social media for her, people coming to town to protest and high profile politicians arrived, didn’t participate, I saved you the time, she says to Bernie, who was about to ask that, they laugh, (George smiled first time today).

      Concerned about protests, whether peaceful or not, lived thru race riots of 60’s, Rodney king riots, doesn’t like that sort of thing, wish people could get along better

      • What happened? There was a fight, some kind of altercation between Mr. Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, discussion w friends, she would interject with “a young man died,” she tells the grandsons to be careful going to store.

      • doesn’t like mass protests, scary and unsettling, she says. Protests had racial component, she tells West, did not sign, nor does she know anyone who signed the petition.

        • not guilty, maybe no violence, but protestors, not concerned for self, doesn’t believe any hard would come to her, would further protests shape the way you view the evidence and render a not guilty verdict, person of reason and a fair person, knows minimal about this case, so it really is what is presented to her.

        • she says not concerned that he would not get a fair trial, O’Mara hands him a note from Consult, O’Mara looking at phone, she laughed when West said he lost his train of thought, George laughed good naturedly, not heartily, West goes over to listen to Consult.

          She says she believes George Zimmerman approached Trayvon Martin to find out what he was doing, TM was walking through, Mr. Zimmerman was doing community watch and called out to him, and asked him what he was doing around there, that’s what she heard when it first occurred, Mr. Zimmerman was injured so there must have been an altercation, initial call at the beginning was a 911 call to say someone was in the neighborhood, heard that he was told not to follow, and he chose not to, don’t know what motivated him to follow him, George Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin, after being told not to, I believe that he did, because I do not know what happened, what convinces me is that Trayvon Martin has died, so you are convinced, that George Zimmerman disobeyed a police order, asks West, she says yes, do you think he did something wrong, language on call, descriptors, remember someone was walking through complex, looked suspicious, someone called and was screaming for help in the background, who was screaming, not the particular call.

        • remembers audio experts disagreed, if I knew I would be here, I would’ve paid attention, believe that they differed, when watching news didn’t absorb it because other distractions, one expert said that there might be some confusion, one expert said George, one expert said it was TM, did not get any sense of the methods used by expert.

          Feel very badly for the Martin family for losing their teenage child, we are two women raising three teenage boys, so we are overprotective, we tell them to be careful of how they are perceived on clothes they wear, etc, discuss that in the family, West began to ask if George did something wrong in a more detailed way, she had earlier said no, Bernie objected, Judge said he was getting too deep into it, doesn’t know if he racially profiled TM, why do you refer to George Zimmerman as Mr. Zimmerman and Trayvon by first name, she said because adults she calls Mr. and teenagers by first name, does not read the Sentinel, (Corey looking sideways toward West, looks almost like she’s rolling her eyes at him), no other family in this area, GA and WA has family

        • Cannot be open to the possibility that George didn’t follow after being told not to, because everything happened after the call, she says.

          Why did George have a gun, she had asked, West asks more on it, she says if neighbor sees something, they call an intermediary, or someone, why did he have a gun, was it something he was authorized to do, believes he was actively patrolling, hadn’t heard of NW carrying a gun, didn’t question the policy.

          Do you think GZ did something wrong by carrying a gun, Object, Sustained.

          Did you hear anything in the news that GZ firearm was legal? Yes, I heard it was legal, and didn’t give it anymore thought.

          West tries to ask if she thought his having a gun on NW he was doing something wrong. Objection. Judge frowns on West. West asks to approach. Lorna goes also (she looks all dressed up, with blue bling and all)

          (George was listening throughout, writing intently, maintaining his serious sobriety from before. Shellie looks like she might have a tan)

          • Back from bench, West smiling a lot, like a kid in a candy store, I am never sure when he smiles like that, if its a good thing, or not!

            Is trying to rephrase whether GZ did something wrong by carrying a gun, asks her coworker opinions, etc. (George’s head into notes, and writing)

            She says their opinions changed. Some convinced that it was racially motivated, that it was racial profiling. Others said he may not have done anything wrong. She doesn’t get involved, that it was a racial thing, her grandson is biracial, so she walks away from that conversation, he’s six. (O’Mara writing something). Independent, has her own thoughts.

            • Shellie has four vertical frown lines on her forehead, how unusual, I’ve seen horizontal, never vertical frown lines. Hope she is okay.

  3. Good grief, get rid of this woman, lol. As long as you keep asking her the same question in various ways long enough it goes from “I don’t know” to “I know” on nearly every question, lol.

    • she’s set on the fact that he disobeyed, followed and had a gun, as she said in the beginning, so West seems to be trying to develop that and get her to say she cannot change her mind. He got her to say that one point at least! He seems to struggle for creative ways of phrasing things sometimes.

    • Z back in 8 mins, note paper, notebook, and yellow stickys on the desk ready to go. Bottled water hmmm … what happened to their daily pitcher of iced water?

      • Stutz doesn’t tweet much through the day. Belich gives nice details, and Pipitone continues to be a decade or two out of bounds from real age of victim, sorry, juror!

  4. H 18 Hispanic male business owner in 30’s

    does not watch the news, Net Flix, pretty bizzi at that time, recalls young guy got shot, by NW, big stir about it, basically talk about it, no Spanish news either, people talking, NW was what did it, guy was walking back from store, he got shot during that time, police, protest, politics, people making it racial issue, (O’Mara hand on face, listening intently), didn’t participate, hoodies, no photos, no recordings.

    George had a nice laugh along with courtroom, when juror says he was being brought in the courtroom because he did something wrong.

    • recently came to the US, mom and dad don’t speak English much, no cable, facebook for pictures of friends, case has not made an impression on him, works as Mechanic, owns business, if its long process, will affect his business, bench approach.

      (What is up with Z? Really somber and melancholy today! Defense conferring with Consult, they’re up to the bench with Lorna again)

      • He is answering O’Mara that hardship is considerable if he has to do it. 2010, moved here with wife and daughter, didn’t know if he said he moved here from Kuwait?

        (GZ looking so worriedly over at him, something juror said about something affecting his life, brought the worry on George, and there are those same forehead wrinkles as on Shellie)

        young guy got shot, coming from store, NW guy, something went on, a fight, dk.

        Understands about law and evidence, and opinions are not facts. Did not pay much attention to this.

      • To be honest, I heard that police didn’t act, somebody in police got fired, will not hold it against any side, (West and George writing a long paragraph seems like), no media, counsel approach the bench!

  5. So I guess if they do the Frye hearing at 3 EST 4 EST then that only leaves maybe two or three three or four more jurors for the day unless some go quickly for other reasons.

      • But she didn’t ask yet ?

        (ugh, my new laptop cursor jumps around when I am typing, I can’t stay on the line I am typing) Any advise how to fix this?

        • I’ve had that problem too. It ended up being the slight touches to the swipe pad. Turn it off while you are typing.

          • I will try that, thanks yankee. Its taking longer to type, since the cursor jumps around randomly into sentences and paragraphs

    • O’Mara was whispering something to him and George sat down blinking and looking down a lot. I wonder what’s going on. O’Mara never talks to George.

  6. We finally know question #4
    paraphrasing: Have you formed an opinion as to the guilt or innocence of George

    Actually that is question #3
    Question #4 Is “regardless of that opinion could you keep an open mind”.

  7. H 27 middle aged white male grey ZZ top beard (moustache and 8 inch long beard) per Pip

    TV news discussion with co workers, Ch 9, some national, facebooking, sister a cop in Vegas, donated to the defense fund when they began, $20, underdog, marches against him, death threats, getting piled on, couldn’t work, outside people coming in leading marches, media set against him, media, refers to him, seemed to me to be biased, I have an opinion, but I have an open mind also, I want to see what else you have, Mr. Zimmerman was trying to do the right thing, and things kinda spiraled out of control, was looking out for his neighbors, burglaries in the neighborhood, I have had the same thing in my neighborhood, I called the police, by the time they came, the person got away. People who make a living out of making things a racial issue, stir up trouble, coming in and leading protests. Portrayed victim as 12 to 14 year old.

    Silly Sybrina sitting there giving ZZ top the evil eye: It won’t work poo! Some people actually get it, they see you for what you are!

    Bernie pushing the solidness of the opinion, objection from defense, judge sustains. All I have heard the media accounts, you don’t call the cops if you’re up to no good, the victim was on top of him beating him, so far that’s what the media reported, one news outlet got into trouble for doctoring a call, confronted by the victim, broke his nose, knocked him down, believed it based on injuries and witness,(GOSH this guy has it down, thank you! If everyone thought like this, we would not have this railroad! George looking at him sober, trying not to show emotion, but you can see it in his eyes, a look of wow, someone gets the truth, gets me), Zimmerman altercation in a bar, he was convicted, didn’t sound like anything serious.

    Media slant things to portray things, I was pro Zimmerman then, Bernie saying how that would happen, if media slanted against Zimmerman, and juror contributed to his defense. Juror reiterates he can keep an open mind. (George breathing deeply and looking concerned). Bernie says he didn’t answer the qstre honestly when he didn’t say he contributed and had an opinion. Juror says not prejudged, but have an opinion.

    • syg, that if you’re afraid for your life, you can’t retreat if someone was on top of you, a witness corroborates his story, if there are two witnesses that refute it, then that witness is biased, (West writes something down, George turns to say something to West, West doesn’t look at him, looking concerned at the juror, but bends his ear to George)

      Facebook related to case, no, photo of George Zimmerman on the home page, I don’t think so, I would like to think anyone could be objective in a case like this.

    • My personal experience at that age, I wouldn’t have jumped on an adult, but you take a lot of chances you wouldn’t normally take, if he had a history of fighting and … (George looking like he could cry) Juror says I think he had the same history as Mr. Zimmerman around his age, violent behavior, etc. (George nodding his head in acknowledgement. TALK ABOUT HUMILITY! You will never see this from the (thug) family Martin!)

      Defense keeps objecting, Bernie in deep psychological characterization of this witness. O’Mara looking at Bernie smiling with understanding. West did most of the objecting. Consult looks serious and uninvolved today. I wanna do my duty, I am not looking to write a book, I wanna help, if you wanna disqualify me for my donation, then you are free to do that.

      • George with worried sad look.

        Person being assaulted is the person yelling for help! Judge tells juror, when she sustains an objection, he can’t answer the qs, Bernie

        Mr. Zimmerman photographs of back of his head, broken nose (okay, George definitely looks like he could’ve cried right then, his chin quivering, eyes blinking. This juror is telling it like it is. I think this is the first time George is hearing someone who speaks truth, someone who gets it. Turth is very healing) Funds were depleted, used it for living expenses.

        Sybrina making nasty girl faces, twisting nose and lips Mackayla Moroney, not impressed.

        • Martin family getting a lot of support, marches, money, help, they were doing fine, it was Mr. Zimmerman’s family that had no support, and media continues to refer to him as the man that shot the unarmed teen.

          (George trying to hold it in, his eyes are red, he’s holding tight not to cry. Cry George cry. This is the truth. You deserve the truth, amigo)

          • Rick, I read your play-by-play at night, long after the hearings. I’ve been meaning to tell you how great they are. But this here, you describing this guy and George’s reaction…. dude! You’re gonna make ME cry. And THANKS for that.

        • Juror says he would need proof that Zimmerman confronted Martin, for me to change my mind. Think I was honest, its a shame a young man was killed, but Mr. Zimmerman was within his right to stand his ground.

          (George not smiling at all like he does the others. Definitely holding in the tears. God bless you George. You deserve everyone in America to say this to you. Consult turns to say something to West about Bernie’s question on defense fund, George quickly straightens up, and sucks it in. Poor kid!)

      • I don’t think just because you think you are being followed, gives you the right to assault someone. I believe he has a right to follow a person without being attacked.

        President Obama made a comment about this, he likes to comment on local events like Mr. Martin, he was taking a side in the case, when it wasn’t decided yet. But he made no mention of our heroes overseas, our soldiers … (George nodding slightly, quietly, blinking slowly, looking down, breathing deeply, like he hasn’t breathed God’s good air in a long while)

        I like that Bernie keeps him talking. Thank you Bernie!

        This is so needed. George really needs to hear this.

        The truth needs to be shouted from rooftops, and not be shut up. The stones will cry out if humans don’t!

        • West trying to see if juror can set his opinions aside, to consider the facts in the courtroom.

          Have you made up your mind that George Zimmerman is innocent: YES, juror says. (George biting his lower lip to not show emotion)

          West gets him to say he can put aside his impressions, and admit he may be wrong about his opinion. Its their burden of proof, if they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, are you prepared to find George Zimmerman guilty? Yes, if they can prove …

          Do you work in a location where people talk about this case. Yes, some for, some against, gets lively. A hiccup of a laugh, and George making eye contact tries to smile a bit. Like to think I donated to a good cause. Yes this case has been made divisive. Presumption of innocence, fair trial, West asks if he can give George Zimmerman a fair trial. I believe I can do that, yes, says ZZ top.

          (George closing eyes prayerfully often, breathing out through mouth sometimes like someone holding it in for a long time, to keep tears from welling in his eyes, rubbing his nose quickly)

          • Shellie also breathing through mouth, wiping her eyes as though she is removing smudges in eye makeup, and straightening her face and looking ahead, but yeah, she also looks like she was crying. Good!

            These are good tears. Human tears. You’ve heard the truth you have had to keep hidden, spoken by a perfect stranger, when all the world went loco and the courts trying to quibble over hiding the facts, while the defense attorney sheds tears on BET for how the black man is treated, its about time somebody cut the fat. GOD bless Juror H- 27!

    • I think Bernie gets a kick out of his charismatic, flamboyant style. More than entertaining, it also gets people’s attention! You can see him snicker sometimes. Like he enjoys the process.

  8. H 29 white male soft voice middle aged

    Heard about the shooting in Sanford, circumstances HO Watch program, challenging somebody, photos of Mr. Zimmerman back of his head, heard circus had come to town, so tuned it out. Trayvon’s picture, both when he was young, and when he was older, it was being judged in the media, sarcasm and smile (George smiles with him), one day this, another day that, circus came here, shook it off, coworkers saying it out, I would not judge the case from the media, (O’Mara, Consult, and George writing)

    • The people that came here, not on this case, but on what happened, stirred up everybody, the two reverends, were in favor of Mr. Trayvon Martin, fall on evidence of case to know what happened, we don’t have the info, cannot express opinion one way or another.

  9. George keeps be wiping his nose today, none of that close huddling with Consult as before, and West too seems to be acting a little standoffish, unless George really insists on saying something, then he bend his ear sideways, not facing him head on, or making eye contact, or facing him. (Usually, when people do not face you, but talk to you side ways, they’re not liking ya for whatever reason) Lets see how the rest of the evening goes.

  10. H 31 Hispanic female in 30’s (plump says Stutz, what is her obsession with body types?)

    I don’t pay attention, friends support Trayvon, my family are not like that, we don’t make judgments, we don’t hate paraphrasing, in the news papers, in the internet, Trayvon was walking to the store, hoodie picture of Trayvon, pictures of George going into the courthouse, people taking pictures of him, listen to the call, whatever transmitted on TV.

    • have a busy life, trying to disconnect from electronics when I can, two small children, single mom, working, no twitter, has Facebook, one friend who is strongly toward Trayvon, and is AA, but does not go by what other people say, made some eye contact with George (he smiled back at her, sincere, understanding smile)

      Hardship, has responsibility for children, cannot do jury service

    • All young people are properly programmed with it thanks to their time in academia full of multicultural ideasl. If we’re lucky, by their 30’s they might get mugged or something, and begin decompressing!

  11. H 35 white female 20’s (Stutz says light skinned woman)

    He is being investigated charged wtih killing Trayvon, she did like a pic of Trayvon, on Facebook, a while ago, explains wall and profile to Bernie, lol, did not do anything with commentary, local news, remember skittles, apologizes, Bernie makes her comfortable, Mr. Zimmerman was a security guard, apologizes for not writing that on the paper because its her first time, also heard about Trayvon wearing a hoodie, that was everywhere, did not have opinion about it, lived in Seminole when it happened.

    (UGH, Sybrina chewing gum giving a nasty look to someone on the other side of the room, making twisting nose and mouth movements, grow up)

    My family, a lot of people talk about the case, how it happened in Sanford, and how it was such a big case, her father told her that he was bonded out recently.

    A man was security guard, there was an altercation, the boy was wearing a hoodie and was going to get skittles, I guess there was a gun involved since the boy was shot, the media was not what the case was about, I’d listen to the witness of course.

    • don’t know what I liked about the photo, did not have anything to do with the case. Was media infusing racial element, asks O’Mara. Don’t know. The whole hoodie thing and black people wearing hoodies. Remember something to do with racial, to like or not like, not that important to me, would not affect me, does not form opinion about what she sees. On news, his pic would come up. 3 things about case? idk. Anything? idk. My family get together and we talk about hundreds of different things, idk.

  12. Dr. James Louis Wayman looks very familiar. Univ of California, Santa Barbara, Acoustical Engineering, transmission of sounds through air, what happened to speech once it leaves the speaker. Undergraduate in Mechanical Engineering.

    • taught math to Naval Officers, research automated speaker recognition technology, create computer programs that can recognize people from their speech

  13. I’m with the doc, what’s the point of all this really, we know this guy is da bomb so let’s get right to the nitty gritty and ask about the methods of Reich and Owens and be done with it.

  14. Wow, nearly 2 hours and I bet the judge hasn’t registered that Owens and Reich’s methods are no good, why? because they’ve gone too much into the science and not relating it back to the question at hand.

    Prediction: Motion denied.

  15. The gallery looks empty

      • She seems quite relaxed, as though her decision is already made, and what she needs to say to justify it, written down for her to read. Lol!

  16. West asks if we should take a break, we’ve been at it for 2 something hours, and Judge is like, I’m just concerned about the court reporter … lol!

    Mantei complains about magazine article written by someone else to us for questioning. West keeps objecting to the hearsay objections, saying Frye hearing needs to allow work of other experts in the subject matter.

    • West asks the court to review the Ramirez decision

      Judge says I am very familiar with the Ramirez decision

      Looks like Shellie left the courtroom a while back.

      George is next to Lorna Truett, they were watching on laptop. George’s curfew was extended till 10pm so he should be good for 3 more hours. But hopefully, this is not the day that he has to touch base with the GPS accountability people, because he has to do that every other day, in early morning or later in the evening.

      West asks for 15 minutes so he can find a few of his papers.

  17. Why doesn’t someone just run 100 samples of people talking regularly and run it through Owen’s software and compare it to the screams. How many false positives would you get?

  18. Rick Madigan & D-Man: Thanks SO MUCH for the running commentary and updates for those of us who can’t watch the proceedings. Much appreciated! 🙂

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