June 8 2013 Hearing (Day 3 of Frye Hearing)




Frye Hearing

5) DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE REGARDING THE USE OF CERTAIN INFLAMMATORY TERMS

6) DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO PROHIBIT SPECTATORS FROM WEARING ITEMS THAT DEPICT SUPPORT

Possible motion to continue

Day 2
https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/june-7-2013-hearing/

Day 1
https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/06/04/june-6th-2013-hearing-george-zimmerman/

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117 thoughts on “June 8 2013 Hearing (Day 3 of Frye Hearing)

    • If Reich is allowed to trial, his method won’t be scrutinized as in the Frye hearing.

      Both Owen and Reich will simply be accepted as an expert by the jury and have credibility.

      The State experts laughing with the prosecutor reminded me of this:

  1. This guy is good. Says it’s real hard to compare someone’s screaming voice with normal voice. It changes in a very unpredictable way.

  2. “No microscope in the background, he can’t be a real expert,” will be the State’s argument, I bet. LOL!

  3. Breathing, random patterns of noise, cannot accept any of them as speech, concerning words Reich hears.

    Dr. Allen Fraser on phenomenon where poor quality audio, people can hear patterns that sound like speech. Background information as Reich had come in with, can influence or bias the findings, whereas a person with no background info would not be able to tell from the screams whether or not the person is male or female, English or not.

    • Scientific methodology has to be meticulous to ensure all bias is eliminated, as in clinical experiments:

  4. So instead of dealing with the science, methodology and what the other “experts” said, the state is trying to bring up George’s statements, smothering etc. and if they can’t be heard as well, pfft, lol

  5. Speech analysis is not designed to measure things in screaming. Coping with errors by refining pitch, says Dr. French.

    The fact that you changed something to approve your result, is not something science should be concerned with. State is using this to validate Owen’s manipulation of pitch!

  6. On the one hand, technology, on the other hand methodology. Methodology employed by Owen would not be accepted by the wider scientific community.

  7. Younger persons will have a higher pitch voice if not finished puberty, but Martin was 17 and his voice had developed already!

    • 12 and 15, 16 maybe a little older is when changes in voice would happen in males. Changes associated with other physiological changes.

      That was slick of the State to try and present Martin as the high pitch screamer implying his voice was undergoing changes. Mary Cutcher’s, it was a little boy screaming, crying for help!

      • That all of this needs to happen to free an innocent man who should’ve never been arrested by US law and evidence protocol. What to say of others for whom things will not be so good and obvious that it is a malicious prosecution.

        Even if all goes well and Zimmerman goes free, the fact is that this is what the State tried to get away with to appease the lynch mobs. Our Republic and its laws have already suffered by this travesty of justice.

  8. What the defense is saying is that voice recognition is valid science, but not in the case of screams in extremis. We don’t have any examples of GZ or TM screaming in such circumstances, so it shouldn’t be let in.

  9. Dissertation in Speaker Recognition at Bell Labs funded by US Air Force. Worked as Electrical Engineer at Texas Instruments.

    • Weird he doesn’t understand the interest in the field and the funding.

      Two applications: speakers trying to gain access to a resource or track someone who doesn’t want to be found. TI and USAF interested in people attempting to gain access to a resource, entry control, speaking voice to get through a door.

  10. Calibrating the performance of technology is his obsession. Speaker recognizers and their performance, article 1981!

    Performance for systems being sold favorable to systems, except when fielded. Speech is like a dance, underlying anatomical constraints.

  11. I wonder if one of the tapes included an article I saw about military pilots hearing voices of angels in the sky. Maybe it was the software he’s talking about.

  12. Stanford Research Institute, joined research team as Senior Scientist. Defense Advance Research Agency, human language technology.

    Obsessed with evaluation. Evaluation driven research.

    • Seems to carry an attitude of self importance, but lacking in scientific language.

      If French got the methodology, Doddington should blow out the technology, but we need to get past the personality.

  13. I think O’Mara is a contributing factor to the interaction we are seeing. West would get the focus going right.

  14. Oh God, Dad wisdom. He is not trying to make it relevant to what he is here to say. O’Mara has to pry open his mouth on every thing. And Doddington is enjoying being coddled to.

  15. Sounds like the state took his depistion. So if the defense is calling him it must be because he has something useful to say.

      • I like the way you put it at CTH. I am reposting your comment here:

        diwataman says: June 8, 2013 at 1:31 pm

        “I agree with what LetJusticePrevail & kathyca are saying here but a major problem is also O’Mara. He just simply is not formulating good questions to bridge what Doddington does to the case specifics and the methodology. This guy is speaking in terms of the larger picture behind it all and with regards to a much needed industry shift in the audio forensics that he’s tried to spearhead to “get calibrated” to use his term.

        That kind of activity is way beyond the realm of a Reich or Owen. He is the evaluator and man behind the men, that is, the man behind the real experts, the man who puts the experts tools to evaluation from an engineers and hard sciences perspective, a Reich or Owen are far removed from that perspective. O’Mara needed to tie that in together much more tightly and focus his witness.”

  16. Well … Well … Well … What can I say? Matter of fact attitude on anything.

    Me thinks O’Mara selected this witness personally! Wishy Washy!

    • Owens system ranked good under NIST criteria.

      It makes no difference, how the system did, the methodology was flawed!

  17. May I give you my opinion on Dr. N? I ran into him at a restaurant in Spain. Toledo, Spain. Toledo is in Spain, right?

    This expert is wasting the court’s time!

  18. “Performance” bad when it goes beyond ten seconds. In other words results are bad if you get less than ten seconds as here.

    Boy.

    • I hear ya. O’Mara had this thing wrapped up with his other two witnesses. Maybe his strategy is to confuse everyone to make his point that it would confuse the jury.

      The end point is though I can guarantee you this man has absolutely ZERO respect for the state’s “experts” conclusions regarding the technical side of this whole thing.

  19. Well, you’ve got another Ph.D. who says Owen and Reich don’t have any cred in this area. It might not help, but it doesn’t hurt.

  20. Ok, people like Owen and Reich do not want to attempt to show NIST that their results are accurate.

    But West is so much better about times, screaming vs. non screaming, etc.

    Well now he’s talking about 3 minutes.

    So the evidence in this case isn’t comparable.

  21. Instead of saying what Owen did was ridiculous, I wish Doddington would simply say that what Owen did was try to cheat the system by making it think he was providing the length required by it.

    Sure that technology did good with NIST, and it met the criteria for science. But it did not count on the scientist cheating to get a desired result!

  22. The human ear seeks out patterns that aren’t there, especially when people have hearing issues and listener bias!

    • If you thought Doddington was harsh with O’Mara (not you personally D-man), wait ’til he asked to field Mantei’s absurd questions.

      FWIW, O’Mara was wrong to say, to the expert, we’ll let the court decide (whether Reich was exercising imagination of observation). It is within the expert’s role to SAY WHAT THE CONCLUSION IS. The court doesn’t have to agree with it, but the expert can decide it, independently, if he wants. O’Mara should have let the expert express his conclusion.

      • Mantei was very brief with the last real expert so I expect him to be again. He will jump on a few things Doddington said and make a tempest in a teapot out of them and misrepresent things he said.

        Mantei ought not go too long or he’ll end up getting this witness to further help the defense like he did French.

  23. Here’s what Reich had to say in his report: “Although 8-bit amplitude resolution is attractive for situations requiring small data files, it’s vertical scale has only 256 amplitude gradations [compared to 65,536 for 16-bit]. The 911-Dispatch System’s 16-bit resolution was critical to the success of this investigation, in which the recorded signals had a very wide dynamic range (from very distant speech to softly whispered speech to a single loud gunshot to several heart-poundingly loud screams.)”

    He testified that he knew it was 16-bit because of the metadata from the file he was given. Oops, turns out it was 8-bit data in a 16-bit file format. The top 8 bits were all zeros! LMAO! That alone should disqualify him as a kook.

  24. Nelson knows these experts will embarrass the state. It will likely lead to her ruling no expert testimony. Let the 12 fredrica wilsons on the jury conclude that the voice from from a non punched/non-threatened/no injuries to the face Trayvon Martin.

    • She’ll rule whichever way she thinks the state wants her to rule. If Corey or Bernardo get word to her to exclude them, then they’ll be excluded. But, the performance in courtroom says the state wants Owen and Reich, and not hearing otherwise from (others in the) state, she will pass them over the Frye hurdle. Then it’s up to the state to decide if they want to call them at trial.

  25. I just want to repeat a comment I left at the treehouse:

    “…a major problem is also O’Mara. He just simply is not formulating good questions to bridge what Doddington does to the case specifics and the methodology. This guy is speaking in terms of the larger picture behind it all and with regards to a much needed industry shift in the audio forensics that he’s tried to spearhead to “get calibrated” to use his term.

    That kind of activity is way beyond the realm of a Reich or Owen. He is the evaluator and man behind the men, that is, the man behind the real experts, the man who puts the experts tools to evaluation from an engineers and hard sciences perspective, a Reich or Owen are far removed from that perspective. O’Mara needed to tie that in together much more tightly and focus his witness.”

    • I posted it above also, feel free to delete since its a duplicate. Or better yet, let it stand, since it really gives a good picture of the guy.

      West should have worked with Doddington. O’Mara’s academic snooty way causes unnecessary friction and its never an easy flowing conversation.

  26. The Australian scientist disagrees with French. People within a community can disagree, this is normal, right? Disagreement is the source of progress! Mantei is loving this.

    This is what I knew would happen. Lay people will not understand there is a gnawing chasm of difference between Owen and French. There are certain fundamentals of science that you cannot stray from. Validity and method of experimentation is important in science!

    The difference between astronomy and astrology cannot be reconciled.

    There is real science and there is junk science!

      • She may be still seething over what Crump, Sybrina and Tracy did to her. Of course, she really should have done her homework BEFORE printing their lies, which meant she, in effect, also lied to the public.

      • It is truly profound, if it reflects HER attitude about the case, but I doubt it does. More likely, just what she believes Doddington has said about the others. Watch, and Rene will up to her old tricks in no time. Oh, and another thing, am I the ONLY person who thinks her twitter pic looks like John Denver?

        • No. She resembles John Denver. And I do agree, she was just summarizing what she thought she saw (which summary, amazingly, happened to be reasonably accurate), not saying that she found it credible.

  27. I don’t know why they didn’t continue with other issues. That’s that. Frye hearing continued for some other time, not sure if it will be on Monday or sometime thereafter, mixed somehow in between jury selection stuff.

  28. Wouldn’t requesting Nelson’s recusal stop the trial until she abandoned the ship or until the DCA make her walk the plank?

    • Well, from what I understand, she could continue with the proceedings up until she meets the time limit for responding to the motion to remove herself, and then proceed after that until the DCA ruled on a petition for a writ of prohibition. If granted, then the parties would have specific time limits to ask for reconsideration of any rulings made in the interim (I think) but here’s the rub: If the motion to recuse is filed prematurely, it runs the risk of being denied, and cannot be refiled later. It’s nhot an open door for repeated, unlimited opportunities. There are specific restrictions and limitations. Lester even mentioned this when the process was unfolding in his recusal.

  29. Pingback: June 17, 2013 GZ Trial/Jury Selection (Day 6) & Frye Hearing | DiwataMan

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