Trayvon’s Girlfriend(s)?

As I’ve stated before I believe there is only one girl who talked to Trayvon on Feb 26, 2012 who we have come to know as DeeDee/W8 and that same girl is the only one who did all interviews and depositions with all parties involved so please don’t confuse this with any theory regarding multiple DeeDee’s.

[UPDATE 12:30pm: I realize Sundance has recently posted something regarding the 2dd’s. This post is not about the 2dd’s. This post is not about Sundance. If you want to discuss the 2dd thing or Sundance I would suggest going over to the Treehouse where Sundance posts and discussing there. I am discussing something else. This posted below is what I would like to discuss. I really have no interest in discussing the veracity of the 2dd thing anymore. I have stated my position and that is that.]

[Edit 8:00PM For contrast, comment of the day goes to Pugfrench;

“It also explains why she wouldn’t want to go to the wake or funeral. Being the other woman would be awkward in that situation.”

Thanks for actually thinking about and discussing the issue at hand Pugfrench. Imagine what else we can accomplish if we weren’t so hung up on things like O’Mara and the 2dd theory]

That being said I find it quite interesting I find myself going back to the very beginning with the very same question I had over a year ago.

Who is this girl?

For a bit of context, for anyone new to this, that tweet comes from a friend of Trayvon’s. Note the date of the tweet as that is important as it comes two days after W8/DeeDee is revealed to the world via Crump in his presser on March 20th, 2012. The media explodes with audio snippets of this girl who was talking to Trayvon and so I believe those who knew Trayvon watched and wondered who this girl was, that is, they didn’t know who she was. Stephen B here, not to be confused with Stephen Martin, tweets to that very effect and puts it together that Trayvon must have been seeing two girls at the same time; W8/DeeDee and this other girl who was unaware of what happened to Trayvon until a week after.

I find the question interesting and important to the story. We’re all very well aware of the very narrow and often vague story Crump et al. sold to the public regarding who this person Trayvon Martin was. A tremendous effort was put into selling a false image of him and through the efforts of many on the internets, and a couple of times in the media, we have for the past year began formulating a more realistic picture of who Trayvon Martin really was. So particularity here I am addressing the so called “puppy-love” picture Crump attempted to paint of Trayvon and W8/DeeDee.

How, if at all, the question at hand affects the actual criminal case against George Zimmerman I do not know but then how does one know unless one begins asking.

So it appears to me that Trayvon was cheating on his girlfriend with W8/DeeDee and that is why no one really knows who she was/is because Trayvon of course was keeping the fact from everyone that he was seeing her. W8/DeeDee was Trayvon’s side hoe.

This of course would explain why Trayvon’s main girlfriend has never come forward in support of “Justice for Trayvon”. I guess she never forgave him.

This would also explain why W8/DeeDee never came out as well; as the cheating other would you?

W8/DeeDee is also a known liar which begs the question what else did she lie about. I think she lied about what she actually heard while on the phone with Trayvon, after all she’s sitting there face to face with Trayvon’s parents as the cheating woman so of course she’s going to lie and tell them what they want to hear. She knows damn well Trayvon went to kick George’s ass for watching him. That’s straight up disrespect in Trayvon’s world especially when it’s not coming from an LEO.

Another question that often comes up in light of this is how is it Trayvon’s girlfriend did not know of Trayvon’s death until a week after and to that I would say you have to ask her. Perhaps she was the one who was really in the hospital? And DeeDee co-opted that aspect into her story? Just a guess though. Clearly she was out of touch somehow though.


161 thoughts on “Trayvon’s Girlfriend(s)?

  1. So your theory is that he had a sixteen year old girl friend that his friends knew, who was in the hospital. But he also was seeing an eighteen year old that his friends didn’t know. So when it came out that he was on the phone with his girlfriend everyone assumed that it was the sixteen year old that they knew. Why would the eighteen year take the hospital story as her own? And who is the girl that ronquavius met at the wake or funeral or something?

    • Huh? How did you get that from my post? I have no idea how old this other girl is but I am saying based on his friends tweet that he was seeing two girls. No need to theorize about it when it’s right there in his friends tweet. I’m saying that they didn’t know who W8/DeeDee was, hence the tweet. Why did DeeDee use the hospital story as a lie? I don’t know, perhaps because it was fresh in her mind that’s what his other girlfriend did. I talked about Ronquavis before in that it’s possible he did not know Trayvon very well and just assumed the girl he met at the funeral which may have been this other girl was W8/DeeDee.

      • I thought that was where the discrepancy with the ages came from. Does that mean that the state never spoke to his real girlfriend, just the side chick he was on the phone with? I am having a horrible time putting this all together.

        • I don’t know who the first was to say the age of W8/DeeDee was 16, which as we know is not true. My guess is it was Crump who put that nugget out there in support of his “minor child” thing to keep the press away.

          All I’m fundamentally saying here is that Trayvon was seeing two girls. W8/DeeDee was the one on the phone with him at the time. The other girl was obviously someplace where it took some time for her to find out about Trayvon.

          I don’t think anyone has spoken to the other girl he was seeing, of course the state never really looked into Trayvon anyway so of course they would never get that far.

          • My question is this. At the time of the PCA was the state aware of more than one DD? It just seems like there must be more than one. Hard to imagine. If there are 2 DD’S it will have to be exposed soon or excluded by the TCJ.

              • Do you know the secret info that sundance is referring to in his last keyser soze post? I’m not sure how much you guys exchange info and I was wondering if you knew what sundance was talking about, but still felt there was only one deedee.

                • Well I would have hoped my first paragraph would do away with this 2dd stuff as it really takes away from my post. From my reading he believes he found the first dd of his 2dd theory. As I don’t believe in the 2dd theory then it follows I don’t believe this other dd exists.

          • Ok I think I understand. I thought that maybe trayvon did have a sixteen year old girlfriend that was known by his friends and family and when it came out that he was talking to his girlfriend they just assumed it was the sixteen year old because the didn’t know the eighteen year old existed. The family tells crump that his girlfriend is sixteen, he tells the public that, but then later finds out he was talking to his side girl. So there are two girls, but the real girlfriend never had anything to do with crump and the state. It would explain deedee s bizarre response when BDLR asked if they were dating and she said , they were getting there. That could mean that he told her that he was going to break up with the real girlfriend and exclusively be with her. Or I’m wrong about this. This case is crazy

            • You’re taking it further than I am. As I said I have no idea how old the other girl is. You could be right though, perhaps that explains partly why the other girl didn’t find out about Trayvon because they assumed she knew because they believed she was the one on the phone with him. Thinking of DeeDee/W8 in this regard I think it explains that moment with Bernie. Could you imagine? You the cheater sitting there with Sybrina starring you down and someone asking those types of questions? lol, good grief.

  2. So many unknowns about DD and many theories. Hopefully things will get cleared up at trial. I’m not sure if exposing who DD and Francine really are before the trial will help the defense. Maybe that knowledge is a card best played at trial. Timing is everything.

  3. It seems weird to me that martin had two girlfriends and his friends didn’t know. Maybe a Sanford girlfriend? Or a girl he met while staying at one of the various houses he stayed at. Maybe they were so secretive about the identity of deedee because she didn’t want anyone to know that she was the other woman and it could cause some sort if teenage scandal among their friends. Or maybe I’m just throwing out wild speculations because I am lost

      • Maybe adults dont advertise it, but teenage boys often do. Teenagers cant keep secrets very well, especially because of social media. I think he would want to brag. Plus his friends might not be tge type to make value judgements, seeing as one referred to both girls as hoes.

  4. D-Man, I understand that you don’t think there were two DD’s, but don’t you think that the girls on the recordings of the 2 different interviews sound like two different people? The girl that was on Crump’s recording sounded assertive and not at all like the girl who sat down with BDLR.

    • Well she was talking to “the man” in one instance so maybe that might account for some difference. I don’t hear any difference so striking as to convince me it’s two different girls though.

      • lolz, I’m sure he can find all kinds of things in those dd interviews. Perhaps he would say that dd is actually two people but really only two people in one because her vocal chord personality stress indicators imply a split personality with instances of speaking in tongues so quickly and silently only he can hear them. So I guess in that sense there really are two deedee’s.

    • They probably practiced what she was going to say in crumps recording. if shes hiding something she would be more nervous talking to someone that could charge her with perjury.

  5. I don’t think Trayvon had anything resembling what we would consider a normal teenage dating relationship. I think his interaction with females was all about chasing “ho’s” and their “drippin panties.” So perhaps he was having sex with multiple misguided teenage girls, but the part of the narrative that has him in “puppy love” or with a regular girlfriend he spent hours on the phone with is a crock, in my opinion, and was spun to suck the public into the narrative. If he was chatting up a teenage girl the day/evening of his death, my guess is he was either trying to “hit that” or it was some sort of drug transaction. I think TM was too far gone into his chosen lifestyle to be interested in long puppy love chats with sweet lil teenage girls. All that has happened since 2.26.12 to keep the sweet lil girlfriend lie alive feels to me like a B. Crump stage production, with Sybrina, perhaps Tracy and assorted others helping to rearrange the stage sets as necessary to keep pace with the script.

    • Well no doubt his tweets speak to that attitude however at least according to this friend of Trayvon’s he had a “girlfriend” or “main hoe” if you will hence DeeDee the side hoe.

      • Re StephanB’s tweet, I’d have to know what “went wit” means for teens in that lifestyle. Somehow I doubt it means they were in constant touch and went out on regular dates. I’m thinking the primary ‘ho would be someone he simply had frequent sex with and side ‘ho’s were sporadic sex partners. I just doubt anyone in TM’s friend/family circle was trying very hard to locate primary ‘ho after 2.26. It wouldn’t be a priority given females seem to be nothing more in this lifestyle than booty calls. So it wouldn’t surprise me if primary ‘ho didn’t know of TM’s demise for a week … especially since he was suspended, didn’t attend school regularly anyway, etc. As for side ho/DD/person on phone with TM day/evening of 2.26 … I’ll believe there’s such a person when I see documented phone log-type evidence he was talking to someone on the phone just prior to his encounter with GZ. Until then, in my view, the girlfriend-on-the-phone story is just part of the larger fairtytale concocted by Crump.

    • No other person has come out to identify themselves as a particular girl friend of Martin. I don’t see his having a dating relationship with anyone including DD. Were they pals? Who knows?

  6. Dman: I am beginning to think you are correct. I admit I got caught up in other theories. SD is still holding on but why is he withholding information about the “other DeeDee”until after the DCA decision?

      • I have learned my lesson about asking such things over there. You may have noticed certain people in the hierarchy do NOT “like me” so I have become a target. Others have brought it to my attention but I already sensed it. I was virtually accused of not being trustworthy. When my loyalty to that site is called into question, there is nothing left to do. I am not allowed to do what so many others do and I know it. One should not have to scrutinize one’s own comment before posting it.

        Clearly I am not welcome there but I remain faithful to SD and have many friends there with whom I have mutual respect, especially jello. I do not want to get banned so I am now limiting my comments after self censoring them.

        Nope, someone else will have to ask.

        • I am on the feces list at the Conservative Treehouse as well. SDC claims that I post on various pseudonyms which is untrue unless I’ve been hacked. I am on permanent moderation as a result. I can’t fix it so I don’t worry about it.

          What astonishes me is that a looser such as TM could have any girlfriends much less two. While definitions of success varies from community to community, women prefer successful guys. It is a Darwinian instinct. TM was flunking out so he was not successful by mainstream standards. TM was not even participating in athletics, in part because he was flunking out. TM didn’t even like basketball. The narrative that TM had a girlfriend does not make any sense unless he was a successful drug dealer whonthus had $$$$ to spend on whores and a tough guy reputation from MMA. This isn’t a good place for BDLR to go.

            • One day I’d actually like to discuss dd without the 2dd theory being injected into every aspect of the conversation. I’d also like to one day discuss this case without it turning into what some other blogger does. Speaking of off topic stuff what the heck is with this?

              “like SD, feels left out of the loop after having done so much that was helpful to the defense”

              “They think they should have a say on how the attorney w/ 30+ years of experience proceeds since they contributed”

              “Don’t act like a fricken’ prat because the quarterback didn’t make the play you think he should have. End rant. :)”

              You and Yancy sure have an odd take on me.

              • ROFLMAO Way to keep the discussion on topic.

                I can’t speak for Yancy, but touching briefly on my tweets: You often express frustration with MOM not publishing some bits of discovery we know he has, correct? IIRC you’ve also said that if MOM were to publish that discovery then you and others might be able to help research/evaluate it. That he doesn’t do so, IMO, makes you and others feel left out of the ‘loop’. As for the rest, well, you do feel that MOM has made bad decisions, right? And have you not been very critical of him for doing so?

                • I guess I should post more on my interests in this case and why I think this or that. I find people ascribing to me all kinds of positions that are just not true and I guess maybe that’s my fault to some degree.

                  Since day one I have focused on every wrong I see in this case, that doesn’t end at the defense counsel merely because he’s defense counsel. So of course when I think he’s doing something wrong or not doing something that should be done I’m going to say something. Also I have no idea if what I do or say has any effect whatsoever on the criminal case itself. I have never written O’Mara and said “Hey you better look at this”.

                  So I don’t get how you think I’m out of some loop I never injected myself into to begin with. I don’t see how this makes me a “couch potato quarterback coach”, lolz. And also I would think, as I’ve said in the past, that since this was a very public case to begin with and since donations have been asked for from the public continuously for over a year that maybe those people who donate should “have a say on how the attorney w/ 30+ years of experience proceeds since they contributed”, don’t ya think? Or should they just give their money and shut up.

                  • “And also I would think, as I’ve said in the past, that since this was a very public case to begin with and since donations have been asked for from the public continuously for over a year that maybe those people who donate should “have a say on how the attorney w/ 30+ years of experience proceeds since they contributed”, don’t ya think?”

                    No. You don’t seriously think that, do you? That a donator has somehow bought the right to ‘vote’ on how the defense proceeds? Maybe instead of ‘selling autographs’ MOM should have sold votes. $10 get’s you one vote, $50 gets you five, etc.

                    • I wouldn’t have said it otherwise. I know if I got hundreds of thousands of dollars from people I might want to keep them informed on things, you know maybe give them the truth since they got so much crap to begin with that motivated them to donate in the first place. But hey, that’s just me.

                    • As I re-read what I wrote I started to think: Considering how trials are becoming a form of entertainment, it’s not entirely beyond belief watcher participation may get to that point. Buy a vote and decide what your favorite team does next.

                    • Well I certainly have not been in this every day for over a year for entertainment purposes. I have never watched or followed cases before this and any other cases I do from now on will be of the same nature as this one such as the Ables case.

                    • I didn’t mean to suggest that you were, but many do. And many might actually be willing to pay for a chance to call the plays if they could. Doesn’t the though of the legal system becoming something like that disturb you?

                    • Well in effect that is what we have here don’t we? I mean a factor for receiving for donations for your defense might be in the donators trust in counsel. If that trust begins to falter then would not the donations? Therefore counsel would correct himself accordingly? Is it not that way for any organization one donates to?

                  • I wouldn’t say that donors should just give the money and shut up, but they are not entitled to a vote. As much as I might disagree with MoM’s allegiance to the BGI and might cite FBI stats about how a grossly disproportionate share of. Crimes are committed by Blacks, I have no doubt that Blacks often get railroaded because they areBlack.

                    The big thing to remember is that MoM and awes have ALL of the discovery plus our speculations and the results of their investigations and depositions. They have more info than we do. The. Also know from experience that key, exonerating evidence like revenge is often a dish best served cold. One example is that they haven’t publicized their interview with the Double Dee Dee yet, just snippets of information. That info has probably informed their decisions about strategy.

                    Finally, MoM and West understand the system from experience. They realize that the establishment has invested it’s credibility in this case. They have been careful to not be to aggressive in the hopes thatnthe establishment would be smart enough to abandon the case once they realize that it is crap. Pam Bondi personally signing the response to the DCA was her squandering the last opportunity to resolve the case without massive, political repercussions. The “Letter to Sabrina” from Double Dee Dee that wasn’t written by the Double Dee Dee that was interviewed is essentially the final nail in the coffin for this case. I suspect that BDLR, Corey and Bondi are now so despondent that they are playing Russian Roulette with five chambers loaded.

                    • The donors needs and wants come secondary to George Zimmerman’s need to get himself defended from this charge. The disclosure of discovery and the timing of it should be left to those who know what they are doing. Not the curious or bored.

                    • So Crump et al. narratives, myths, manipulations and lies should reign supreme in hopes that one day some things may come out in court?

                    • They were supreme. Now they aren’t. Haven’t you been paying attention to the media? The tide has shifted and in no small part do to MOM’s low-key approach. Sometimes an aggressive approach isn’t the best approach.

                    • Ah no. The “media’ is a concept. The people in the media have not changed. The black boy will always be the victim because those in the media think very much like Crump and O’Mara do. You want to attribute some shift in things towards the defense due to O’Mara then by all means but I seriously doubt any shift if it exists is attributed to anything he has done.

                    • I don’t pay attention to the right, only the wrong, what kind of pessimist and cynic would I be other wise. j/k. Legally speaking I have no idea, you would have to ask some lawyers on that. I liked how quick he was to call Bernie out on his BS lie about “forgetting” about the hospital thing.

                    • So you don’t acknowledge there’s any shift, yet say if there is any it wasn’t do to what MOM has done. How can you dismiss MOM’s efforts unless there was a shift that you can objectively analyze? Or you are so prejudiced against MOM that even theoretical shifts in favor towards the defense occur in spite of MOM’s efforts? He can do no good?

                    • Do you have some objective scientific study you’d like to show me? I haven’t pre judged O’Mara. I’ve commented on his words and actions.

                    • No, you’ve commented on a theoretical/speculative (from your perspective) shift in the media in favor of the defense. And you go further to say that you ” seriously doubt any shift if it exists is attributed to anything he has done”. Evidently, from your perspective, even if something good happens for the defense it certainly isn’t the result of anything MOM has done. That most certainly is a prejudgement of MOM. To you he can do no good even in theory.

                    • What? So in a theoretical world I’ve theoretically prejudged O’Mara? Well okay then. If something good happens? I thought we were talking about this shift you believe has occurred now it’s just anything good that happens? What the hell are you even arguing?

                    • “What? So in a theoretical world I’ve theoretically prejudged O’Mara?”

                      In reality you’ve decided that the idea MOM may have influenced the media in favor of the defense is wrong. You immediately dismiss the idea even in theory. ” I seriously doubt any shift if it exists is attributed to anything he has done.”

                    • Fine, whatever. I’m saying that if some media person has shifted away from the bs to the truth it wasn’t because of O’Mara. Can you name a real life example of it? Can you tell me something O’Mara has brought forth through his own accord in which then some person in the media who formally took the bs as truth then took what O’Mara brought and they ran with the headline favorable to the defense? Perhaps even recanting the bs they spewed before? Because I can’t think of one thing but perhaps you can enlighten me.

                    • “Can you tell me something O’Mara has brought forth through his own accord in which then some person in the media who formally took the bs as truth then took what O’Mara brought and they ran with the headline favorable to the defense? Perhaps even recanting the bs they spewed before? Because I can’t think of one thing but perhaps you can enlighten me.

                      Easy. Everyone called it SYG. Now many are calling it self-defense immunity. Even BDLR and Nelson have refered to it as self-defense immunity.

                    • George Zimmerman won’t have pretrial ‘stand your ground’ hearing

                      See the quotes? @jeffweineros is very reluctant to budge on calling it SYG. But it’s progress. Other media outlets and individuals have been far quicker to pick up on the distinction MOM has made.

                    • MOM is a board certified defense lawyer. Fighting an aberration. His concern is first for his client to do the best he can. But he has expressed concern for the CJS itself. He got West to come in. He made some errors early on that were pounced on to drain the defense of $$$. This pressure to plea bargain was answered. NUTZ. “I will not plea bargain an innocent client.” IMO it is what it is and GO DEFENSE!

              • I like the conspiracist one but I feel it would have been better if she spelled it conspiRACIST. Like they do with shelLIE. Megalomaniac seems to be a bit much, particularly coming from her. Also legalhack. There might be a bit of projection going on in her tweets. Im trying to come up with a suggestions for her but I got nothing. Plus I dont know how to tweet. I also just realized that I have been using different names for my two devices. I just inverted the two words.

  7. That’s interesting! I didn’t know a friend had tweeted his girlfriend didn’t know he died until March 20th! That poor girl! What a way to find out.

    I know the school was silent in telling the faculty and the students until March 21st.

    In looking at the family’s social media pages, they’ve been through a lot of funerals. Lots and lots of pictures but oddly, no pictures of Trayvon’s funeral posted. They say a 1,000 people attended. How is that so if they kept his death quiet until their March 8th press conference?

    Trayvon was described as a former student in the Internal Affairs Investigation. With the school’s inaction following his death, it really looks like he was a former student at the time of his death.

    • I think you may be a bit confused there. She found out a week after his death, I have no idea how she found out. The tweet date is important because he obviously found out about DeeDee like everyone else, on TV.

      There was only one photo of Trayvon’s funeral that I have ever seen that Stephen had which I think he took down now. It’s still around somewhere though.

      He was described as a former student? Crap, how the hell did I miss that. Do you remember which report that was from?

    • Ooops, I read that wrong. One girlfriend found out a week later. So perhaps in time to attend his funeral.

      W8 testified she knew he died the next day in her comments to Mr. Crump on March 19th.

      • Don’t ya hate when that happens? lol. Yes, I think she may have missed the viewing but made the funeral and that is who Ronquavis met and mistook later as being DeeDee.

        That part of the Crump interview is hard to notice but I agree that’s what she says there and when W8/DeeDee found out. But did you take that as the question I asked? I asked what report says he was a former student.

          • Ah, it was as I worried. It’s not clear from that if they mean at the time of his death he was a former student or they’re phrasing it that way because of his death. I must have read that a bunch of times and probably thought that at the time so didn’t think it meant the other way.

            • I thought the same. So I tuned in to how the press described the student killed in the Boston Bombing. Not once did they describe her as a former student of the college.

              • I hear ya but there does remain that bit of ambiguity there. And iirc they state in the reports he was going to Krop. Also In the reports Smith said he was going to MCC.

                • My vote is that, since they were talking specifically about the MDSPD, that “former student” was merely because he was deceased. No?

            • That could be what they meant. To my mind, there is no need to say former when describing him as deceased.

              If I wrote, the deceased was a student in Miami Dade School System would you also need the word “former” to understand he isn’t anymore?

              It could be read both ways. I take that with the fact the school took no steps to provide counselling to the students and faculty on Feb. 27th and 28th to lean towards he wasn’t student there when he died. One day we’ll know for sure.

              • Why does EVERYTHING have to be so mysterious and difficult about this case. Rhetorical question.

                This happened well over a year ago and we still don’t know the truth about DeeDee and all of those damn phones and MANY other things as DMan continues to post. NUTS!!!

            • “Isn’t someone a former student when they are deceased?”

              Only if they bring a note from the coroner asking that they be granted a permanent state of excused absence on account of being dead.

              : – )

    • I dont underdtand how it is possible for her not to have heard about it. Where was she, vacationing in outerspace? No one called her, she didnt see the news? She wasnt online at all? Maybe the week was an exaggeration. When a boy I went to school overdosed it was the onky thing everyone talked about for weeks. If his friend knew who she was someone would have told her. Or he was being imprecise with his language. A lot on kids consider sunday not to really be the first day of the week since it is part of the weekend. Monday feels like the first day because that is the start of the school week. So maybe she found out on tuesday and he thought on him being killed on sunday as happening last week. although it is possible that we are reading too much into that tweet. Deedees story is tgat she didnt hear the gunshot so she could have,been talking to him and still not know that he was dead until days later. Or she lied about knowing he was dead because she didnt want anyone to know she was on the phone. Did deedee ever say when she found out he was dead? She could have skipped the wake and funeral because she was afraid she would be questioned about the last time he talked to her. Or maybe she just hates funerals, or their relationship was very casual and she didnt feel obligated to come, but was embarressed to admit that to sybrina. Or her parents disapproved of him and she didnt want them to know she was still talking to him.

      • Of course none of that would explain why bdlr seemed so uncomfortable questioning her about her relationship with martin. Her vague bizarre answer seems significant. Maybe he thought her parents would get upset, or crump asked for some reason that they only ask vague questions about their relationship.

  8. I was typing and posting my error at the same time you typed about my confusion. Are we on the same page now? 😉

    I didn’t read all the internal investigation stuff. Maybe the first two that got posted. The links were posted on my facebook discussion group. I’ll see if I can track it down for you.

  9. Without Dman I wouldn’t know that Trayvon bought blunts at 711 and had a red lighter. Without Sundance I wouldn’t have noticed how the police video in sanford was originally a wobble video (the ABC arrest video, that is). These 2 guys opened up my eyes and it’s a damn shame there are people so god damn blind, or dumb as a box of rocks, to even think of giving them grief. You know what the other side has not given us? An honest thoughtful response based on evidence that makes you say “Wow, that’s very interesting. I hadn’t known that – that’s important to all of this”.

    And it’s a shame people like that may get their way because invisible non tangible 4th dimensional girlfriends who may or may not be what we think they are are part of a case created by lies – and nobody responsible for the lies will have to answer to it. Un.Real.

    • “Without Dman I wouldn’t know that Trayvon bought blunts at 711 and had a red lighter.”

      We don’t know that TM did. I think DMan himself would acknowledge it’s by no means a certainty.

      “Without Sundance I wouldn’t have noticed how the police video in sanford was originally a wobble video (the ABC arrest video, that is).”

      From what I understand what was claimed to be a leaked video was actually the result of a FOIA request. The problem was the surveillance video format was proprietary and they had no way of decoding it. The fastest way ABC could get it on air is tape the video playing on a screen.

      • I meant they bought the blunts for him. Thats why he had his lighter. Clerk denied him he goes outside they buy it and then he walks away. Teens do not walk a long way in the rain without parental supervision to buy painted candy that is not filling. They go for out for fun reasons that can be explained away…oh just goin to the store. Oh you want something chad? Sure. Np… We overlook how chad said they were for him.

  10. Isn’t it amazing how Trayvon was so important he became the racist President’s son but nobody knows for sure, without EXTENSIVE research:

    His School
    Who He Lived With
    Where His Father Was
    Why He Was In Sanford

    99% of the people – no clue. That’s terrifying. It’s like trying to get information out of area 51.

      • Wow!! Amazing stuff. How did I miss this?

        When and where did O’Mara say all of this?

        AND where is the rest of it?

        This is almost too good to be true and it’s really ironic that DMan put it up on youtube. You rock, Dman.. even if don’t like a
        lot of things that MOM. At least, you try to be fair.

        I still think your observation and comments are more practical and believable than the double DeeDee theory. We shall see.
        Nettles: Please tell me more about this vid.

        Still trying to catch up and I have not had time to even visit the other sites.

            • The above “argument” with supporting facts by O’Mara, brilliantly created by DMan is actually found in Part II of the October 26th gag order hearing here:

              I am replying here to keep this simple and may repost it elsewhere including at Nettles site.

              It begins at the 28 minute mark and continues until the one hour and one minute mark, a total of 33 minutes.

              I consider this to be MOM at his best. If anyone has any doubts about his knowledge of this case, then this is a must see and if you have seen it, it is worth looking at again.

              Around the 31 minute mark, he discusses Voir dire and emphasizes several questions that “must” be asked. “Must” is my word but I think he is implying that he will have to ask those questions, a time consuming, but necessary process. So the court has been given notice that voir dire will may be the longest in history.

              72 percent of the prospective juror pool do not believe that George can get a fair trial, implying, in a sense that he is guilty. Whoaa!!!

              Who wants to play in a “game” that is rigged that much? Yet, George must play so I would be OK with almost anything that MOM and others do to level the playing field. as long as it is legal.. Maybe it’s time to forget about ethics and follow the tactics of the opposition, employed extensively by Crump, et al and the State.

              The odds are stacked against George so much that common sense and previous court decisions tell us the trial probably cannot be fair and that Nelson will be unbiased.

              When MOM says “something is afoot” several times. referring to Governor Scott and how he ignored our legal process and made this a political case, I thought, for sure, Nelson would shut him or BLDR would go ballistic but that didn’t happen.

              I am now even more certain that they both know this and in even greater detail.

              What the hell is BLDR looking at and what is he doing while MOM is speaking? I guess he is not paying attention because he knows what MOM is saying is true.

              It is also thought provoking that MOM indicated that any attorney who does not use the internet ten years from now would be guilty of malpractice. Hummm.. excellent point.

              Again.. this is MOM at his peak and, damn, I wish he would be permitted to argue his motions at length as he did here. Is 33 minutes the longest he has spoken?

          • I honestly don’t remember this. I can’t believe he was able to say all of that without Nelson stopping him or BLDR stomping his feet.

            I need to listen to the end of it. Is there ANY chance that you have a link to that part of the hearing?

            Wonder why the rest of his comments included?

            This has certainly made me rethink things.

            This is exactly what I would like to see in MSM. Do we have any brave takers who will replay that on a cable TV show? Just kidding..

            • Yeah, ya think? Wouldn’t it have been great to have that O’Mara from that moment in the press sticking it to Crump and his lies with the actual facts this whole time? Ah but to our dismay we never got that.

              • Well, at least we know that he is not only knowledgeable but also capable. At this point, I can only hope he will do the right thing for George and put his best efforts into it. West may be the key to that. He strikes me as a fierce “take no prisoners” advocate if only he can be unleashed.

                At the end of the day, what else can we do as observers except to trust that MOM will do his best?

                I am hoping he will “turn Indian,” so to speak. How does he respond when he gets really angry? I have not seen that side of him and that could be what it takes to get him inspired.

            • My recall regarding details of this case is pretty good but I highly doubt I can remember the staring time of a segment in a hearing from a video I made seven months ago, lolz.

                • That would be cool to have a search function that finds keywords in audio/video but I don’t think technology has gotten to that point or else I think most people would know about it pretty quickly.

                  • “…but I don’t think technology has gotten to that point…”

                    Not for us mere mortals, although the NSA may have a cluster of Crays for that kind of thing.

                  • I may be mistaken but I thought I read that is was possible. I know I read that you can post certain segments as stand alone vids just as you apparently did.

                    • I would think something like that could be possible with speech recognition software programed somehow in audio/video software to perform searches of keywords. I guess you would have to Google around for something like that, I’ve never heard of it.

                      I’m not sure what you mean by posting stand alone segments like I did. I created the video using video editing software and clipping out that audio portion of the hearing and editing in some stuff.

                    • That’s quite a different animal then what we’ve been talking about. All that amounts to is a URL to a video that forces it to go to the timestamp in the URL rather than it starting from the beginning as it normally would.

                      So you would have to first find the segment of the video you want yourself then note the time then add that to the URL then when you send that URL to someone it will open the video starting with that segment you have chosen.

                    • Sorry that I do not know all of the lingo and did not mean to be confusing but I still think I read something about searching a youtube video. It may have been at one of the Mac forums. This is right up their street.

                    • What.. no voice activated commands to find BLDR flapping his arms? LOL. At least you know I am not nuts. This is not what I recall reading but it was the same idea/concept.

                      If I bump into anything again at the Mac forums, I will let you know since you would use such an app.

      • Thanks. That was a good day, fleeting as it was, let’s not forget that was merely a motion about the gag order which I’m willing to bet Nelson would have denied anyway without so much argument but hey at least it’s in the court record so I guess that makes it official.

    • “You don’t remember this? You don’t think MOM knows? Why would he say these things if he was on the ‘prog’ side and not GZ’s?”

      You say the oddest things sometimes. O’Mara would be “on the same side of the podium” with Crump except for this case. Try to grasp the significance of that. That means that every other case where Crump, the likes of him and the many who believe the same; default position black=victim, race card bs and lies in the media O’Mara would be right there in agreement with him fighting the fight for the black man. O’Mara knows it’s bs in George’s case but apparently everywhere else and in every other case it’s legitimate.

      It might also serve you well to remind yourself who also thought this way, George. You think he’s going to be marching down the streets of Sanford with Natalie Jackson now?

      • I don’t know. Maybe fighting the fight for A black man. He is a defense attorney and black males are over represented in the criminal justice system. I’m not familiar with OMara’s practice. Did he represent a lot of black men? Claiming that his black client was a victim of racist police can be a legal strategy when you have a guilty client and nothing else to argue. It worked for OJ. He doesn’t have to be a true believer in the bgi to co opt some of their talking points to best serve his client. I know it’s sleazy, but he is a defense attorney. Heehee.

        • Interesting use of over represented. That could mean several things.

          “black males are over represented in the criminal justice system”

          Too many blacks are criminals or too many are charged and/or convicted compared to other races or there are too many lawyers “over representing them.” If it’s the latter, then what’s the fuss all about?

      • Thanks DMan for arguing so clearly, your points are well taken, this is the only reason the case is “complicated”. Your website is a must read, great social commentary and access to court docs.

  11. For those that weren’t reading SD’s blog last night, he and I were disagreeing on multiple issues. I’m mentioning this to make this post make more sense. This what I had just written there and I felt it should be he as well in case some didn’t get a chance to read it.
    * * * * * *
    I think I found an area where you and I may agree (maybe).

    Tara said, “Crump said that the girl who was the last person to speak with Trademark was his girlfriend, but her description did not match the girl who Stephen knew to be Trademark’s girlfriend. There was a mismatch because of Crump’s claim, not because there were two girlfriends.”

    You agreed and to do I, but maybe for different reasons. I believe that at one time prior to what happened that night he was on the phone to ONE of his girlfriends; but NOT with DD. I believe that that REAL girlfriend was the one that Ronvarus(sp) met at the funeral. I don’t believe that she was on the phone with him that evening. I believe that she was contacted by Crump/Juleson at one point and she wasn’t any help as far as what she knew that night. But her being on the phone and being his “girlfriend” gave them the idea to create one. The birth of DD, the one and only, based on the real girl of whom he had spent time earlier talking to at great length. This would explain why Stephen’s didn’t match up. It was because the “DD” he knew was not the Crumped up one.

    * * * *

    • ejarra
      What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I am too far behind to visit the CTH right now but it sounds like you had a respectful exchange with SD. Can you possibly summarize SD’s response and do you think that his theory is valid.

      I am not being lazy… but I have been in out of the hospital and doctor’s office lately. All is well.. just need more time and some damn sleep. LOL

      • There was no response by SD to that which I had commented there and C&P’d here.

        His theory as far as I can tell is that Francine is the 16 year old DD1 and she went with DD2 to the subsequent interviews on 04/02 and 08/02.

        There is no way that I subscribe to that and completely disagree with it.

        I also disagree that there were two different DD’s that were interviewed.

        • Maybe one day Weird Al can rewrite the Kiss song into “Francine Sixteen”.

          Or rework Chuck Berry’s “Nadine” (Francine, honey is that you?, Oh Francine…)

          If it turns out that Witness 8’s real name is Francine and there was another Francine who served as a chaparone/minder/scribe, I’m going to take that as evidence that the universe exists solely to jerk us around and laugh at us behind our backs.

          • You do have an odd sense of humor and can see where it would go over peoples head.

            I found this funny and was going to reply directly to it, but I’ll do it here.

            “But if he has to sit for a deposition, he’ll be a co-counsel out of sorts.”

            THAT was funny!

    • Okay that’s nice and all but can we for once work under the rubric that there is only one dd/W8? I mean is that even possible for people to do anymore or do I have to measure everything I say and do up against some 2dd theory? Do people have the ability to think outside of this 2dd stuff anymore or are we all so strapped to it like it god’s truth or something that it becomes the measure of all things?

      • When the truth comes to light I think we’re all going to be disappointed at how simple it is. Some people have a tendency to create complex theories or conspiracies in order to explain what is usually very mundane.

        • I agree and have expressed the same sentiment but I am also forgiving of the many things now passed which were once thought to be a likely truth but are not because of the nature of it all especially given so many myths, manipulations and lies. I have no problem with speculation and hypothesis but I do have a problem with speculation and hypothesis being couched in terms of absolute truth and I especially have a problem when that supposed truth becomes the measure of all things.

      • Hey, I believe now that there was only ONE DD. As you know, I did NOT believe that until that letter and her saying she sat next to Sybrina came out.

        But, I will maintain that DD did NOT talk to Trayvon that evening.

        After reading your reply, I thought more of who she (DD) was. Or better yet, what she was.

        Do you remember BO’s book where he describes his girlfriend of whom we now know was a composite of several girlfriends? That what I believe she was/is. Some of those were at the wake and/or funeral, so Crump could have met some there and took notes; remember Ron said he met “DD” there. He probably met one of TM’s girlfriends there and just assumed that when DD was produced by Crump that it was the person he met. I know that his two self-professed closest girlfriends were there according to their tweets.

        It makes absolutely perfect sense to me that DD was created by Crump and/or Juleson from notes and mini interviews of those friends. They may have even paid one of them (I believe
        Ashey, as she said she talked to him that day and to not arouse suspicion of a different) for the phone number so that DD could say, “It is now.”

        So maybe my theory of DD is out there, but for me it makes the most sense. It gives reason as to why she was fumbling and making stuff up during the BALDR interview; she just didn’t know TM that well.

        Oh, and Francine, the older black woman, I believe was her minder/acting coach/agent. Pick one or more.

        • I don’t think I can ever be convinced that there are two W8’s. I firmly believe that her story was manufactured purely for the sole intent of Zimmerman’s arrest. The SPD had no evidence to contradict Zimmerman’s narrative. The only person to “connect the dots” was needed and W8 was created to promote the Crump storyline.

          I do however believe that she was on the phone w/Martin. I just don’t think that she was emotionally attached to Martin. She certainly wasn’t seeking justice for TM. She didn’t contact the family even if she had a mistrust of LE. She made every effort not to be interviewed by BDLR to the point where agents had to go find and bring her to SF’s apartment.

          That hearing contained just a few snippets of what was disclosed by W8. I understand MOM’s need to keep information close to the vest. He is under no obligation to reveal his plans for the trial on his website.

          Especially since we know that BDLR is trolling the ‘net! 😎 Wonder why he never mentions TalkLeft that is run by a defense lawyer and relies solely on CTH which isn’t. WhattaDoof.

          • “Wonder why he never mentions TalkLeft …”

            Well, for one thing, discussions about Witness 8, her possible identity, her character, and Trayvon Martin’s character, and going very far in disparaging anyone, are much more tightly controlled there, so there is less for Bernie to get in a “flap” about, or be able to point to with “outrage”.

            But of course you already know that about TL and how tight a ship Jeralyn runs. : – )

          • And of course, Jeralyn is a liberal. I rather doubt that BLDR actually reads any blogs unless his surrogates first tell him what to look at? He is as lazy as Nelson. Remember he said he did not read all of the motions and also said he never saw anything about depos being video taped.

            • Bernie and the Scheme Team wanna keep the idea of “George is a racist” alive in the minds of the public. So seeing how many people (falsely) equate conservatism to racism, it makes a lot of sense for Bernie to point at a site with the scary name “Conservative Treehouse” if he wants to keep the “racism” angle alive. A lot of people who don’t know any better will just think, “Yeah, naturally it’s a conservative site that’s supporting the racist Zimmerman. What’s new?”

              But were he to point to TalkLeft and Jeralyn, it’s liable to confuse people. “Wait a minute, why are THEY supporting the racist Zimmerman?” They would then have to realize that either a self-proclaimed liberal site supports racists… or maybe that the “racist” label stuck on George is not so accurate after all.

              • We can’t have Bernie gettin’ all confuzzled, can we? Gaud forbid they discover than Zimmerman is not a racist. Thirty-four interviews done by the FBI have to be wrong! L-Freaking-O-L!

                I have all of these conservatives following me on Twitter. My uncle, the Republican is so proud. He is hoping y’all can turn me since he isn’t making much headway…for decades…and holds my inheritance over my head…


          • You got it. They are going to claim their PCA is OK cause the thought in good faith at the time it was OK. Sick and twisted ain’t it.

  12. ejarra,
    I think your explanation makes the most sense. I don’t follow the case as well as most of you do I just used to stop in at TCTH to check up and maybe comment of course I will not be doing that anymore.
    I would say two things; it is very difficult to determine the social lives of the average teenager there are girlfriends, hookups, friend-friends, etc. In Trayvons circle and with the example of the adults around him it maybe almost impossible to trace all of his asociations and determine what exactly they are.
    As far as MoM is concerned again I am not as versed as most of you but it has been my experience that Defense Lawyers can be extreemly lazy and opt for the easist solution for them not what is best for their client. With as high profial as this case is I would hope that MoM is not doing that. I also don’t think that is beyond reason that MoM is think of his post Zimmerman career. If he acts too aggressivly against the what is perceived to be not just Trayvon but all of the Black community he may very well kiss his career good bye because he will have lost the trust of his key demographic. Not to mention he also has to worry about his peers amd how they will behave towards him after the trial. If he steps on too many cracks he might very well have to change the focus of his practice or move.

    • I think you really nailed MoM’s motivations. He is a defense attorney in a small town with a very large, Black minority. The fact that Blacks commit a grossly disproportionate share of crimes, particularly violent crimes, is an uncomfortable but irrefutable facet of MoM’s reality. Many of the white people in town are retirees who are far to old to be likely to commit crimes, so almost all arrestees in Sanford are Black. MoM also knows from experience that the police have extremely low arrest rates. Their frustration with their own incompetence results in many of the few arrests being bogus. MoM probably presumed that GZ was guilty of profiling but that TM overreacted to the disrespect. MoM also understands that the probable consequence of waging a too aggressive defense that exposes the blatant fraud will be to alienate his client base. Winning for GZ will be a phyric victory forMoM unless he can score a big defamation settlement from journalists. Even if he scores big, he will no longer be able to practice criminal law in Sanford or Florida. His only hope for a continuing career is to become a nationally prominent defense attorney like Gary Spense.

      • So if O’Mara saves Zimmerman from a guilty verdict his potential black clients are going to say “I don’t want him, he’s too likely to get me acquitted”?

        Do you really think that many of them would be eager to do prison time to “respect Trayvon’s memory”?

      • I really don’t think that’s a rational analysis. People with money to pay an attorney are going to pick the attorney that wins their cases. Having a reputation for winning ALWAYS benefits an attorney regardless of the race of his clients.

      • MOM is not a Gerry Spence and never will be. One would need a thorough understanding of our Constitution AND also avidly support it. O’Mara would change it as he has stated he wants to do with some of our laws.. like SYG.

        • I have had phone conversations with Gary Spence regarding Ruby Ridge and Waco. Spence is no great fan of the Second Amendment either.

          MoM certainly will not be an effe tie champion of civil liberties unless this case becomes a transformative experience for him.

          TRemember the sating that a Conservative is a Liberal who has been mugged?

          A true libertarian is Liberal who has been raped by the legal system. MoM is now learning how to squeal like a piggy. Will he learn from it? Time will tell.

  13. I don’t want to reveal to much of my background but having some prior LEO experience if a D.A. flips to a private Defense attorney then all is forgiven. The average criminal will be wise enough to realize that his defense has friends on the side of the prosecution it will benefit him. This case is unique, MoM is from my understanding a long standing Criminal Defense Attorney with reputation for taking cases from the Black community. I think he fears and maybe rightly so that if he is too agressive in G.Z. defense this will alienate him from the Black community his principal clientel.

    It is not a case of, “he is a good attorney he can get anyone off” it would be more so viewed as he has abandoned his demographic. True or not it doesn’t matter there are many more attorneys waiting in line to take the clients that would refuse MoM’s services.

    Ultimately it becomes a free market issue if you have many more attorneys to pick to try your case would you pick the one who is seen to turn his back on his clients? Again this is not an issue of reality but of perception.

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