State’s 16th Supplemental Discovery – You Got to Be Kidding Me

[UPDATE: May 15, 2013 I’ll be updating this post to include some audio and such]

The State’s 16th Supplemental consists of two reports on the audio comparisons of W11’s 911 call with the yells on it and audio of George and Trayvon.

The Harmsberger & Hollien’s is the much more robust of the two and was much as I thought it would be from any objective person, in other words the science can’t prove it either way.

The second report is not really a report but a letter, I’ll call the Reich letter, consisting of a partial summary and it is, well to say the least, quite amusing. It almost reminded me of watching a LLMpapa video.

I’ll let you read for yourself, lolz, just think Cutcher and PaPa combined.

ROFLMAO don’t know why this is not embedding like the other docs)

theses shall be

“These Shall Be” is clearly closer to W11 while the screaming we hear at the same time is further away so gee I wonder where that sound “These Shall Be” came could have come from;

@4:31:50 (W11)We had the TV kind of loud

I'll kill ya

I have no idea what is being yelled at the same time. As I stated long ago I can’t make it out. Maybe it’s Trayvon screaming “I’ll kill ya!”


64 thoughts on “State’s 16th Supplemental Discovery – You Got to Be Kidding Me

  1. A couple of other things I found of interest were that these three had their names redacted as W52, W53 & W54 while the other audio guys were named. Gilbreath omitted this testing in his testimony forget the Gilbreath thing, I misread the dating as them getting some of this stuff early on. They had audio(in the form of two videos on his phone) of Trayvon this whole time, did the defense ever get that?

    • Yeah, to me THAT is the big news. While one of the “voice analysis” is interesting but inconclusive and confusing, and the other one it VERY entertaining, that’s not what stuck out the most to me. It’s the fact that we now KNOW there are videos of Trayvon… not just audio, but VIDEO. And as you say, it’s VERY big if they’ve kept this hidden from MOM/West. And also, what exactly is Trayvon DOING in those videos?… that’s what I’m most interested in. Can the description in the one report give us a clue?

      “For Martin, several of his high frequency laughs, exclamations, and mocking utterances were employed.”

      Could just be “kids’ play”, but do we really think that’s likely? The “mocking utterances” is, I think, a VERY interesting choice of words.

        • Yep. I can’t help but recall one of our friends here (who is personally connected with certain major players in this case) commenting about videos of Trayvon that are said to exist… videos of him “beating up” people (maybe with the help of others).

            • That wasn’t proof. I would think by now the claim of the phone not being Trayvons would be clear to everyone as not true especially since it was sent to cellebrite and the last hearing where the state said the defense got dd’s text’s to Trayvon from the information on that phone. The defense has never once alluded to it not being the phone Trayvon was using that night nor have they ever alluded to that he wasn’t talking to her that night, quite the opposite in fact. The claim of fight videos on the phone has been in the blogosphere for a long time now and was probably just a lucky guess.

    • I don’t know. Clearly they were never specifically listed in the discovery as such and I assume they got them sometime after sending the phone to cellebrite. Harmsberger & Hollien state they got copies of them later but didn’t mention a date.

      • Sorry – I see now that you’d already addressed that question in your first comment. I see why you LOL’d at the Reich report. What a joke.

        I’ll play spoiler here for anyone who can’t read the documents. Mr. Reich says that George Zimmerman didn’t merely say “these assholes always get away.” Instead, he accuses George of saying the following:

        “Dear God, these assholes always get away, but not on me.”

        He also says that Zimmerman says “These shall be” (which he says sounds like a religious proclamation) simultaneously with poor, poor Trayvon Martin saying “I’m begging you.”

        Question – doesn’t “these shall be” sound a LOT like PLEASE HELP ME? Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt that you can hear Trayvon Martin on the call (which the FBI didn’t seem to be able to hear), doesn’t “I’m begging you” sound a LOT like “I’MMA KILL YOU” when said by a young thugster who is engaged in beating the life out of someone? Remember that George said that Trayvon told him “You’re going to die tonight.” In the heat of the moment, George may have heard “I’MMA KILL YOU” and replayed that to police as “You’re going to die tonight.”

        • I don’t know why O’Mara is fighting it. I say let Reich in and let him go on ad nauseam after which Bernie can show a few papa videos, lol, oh god I would love it.

          • And then Trent as the closing act… “Here I am, got my hoodie on, lookin’ all thuggish, beatin’ that head! Doin’ the fat boy shimmy!”

          • Maybe so. He might even develop a comedy routine for the cross. Like. You think the scream might be Martin’s right? Oh Yes 70%. So does this mean it might be Zimmerman? Oh yes it might be. Good Grief. So in your opinion as an expert it might be either one but may be Zimmerman or may be Martin ? This is crazy. Did they pay him to do this?

          • Papa and the other traybots are hiding out on their sites. hiding their hatefull comments from public view.
            I would love to see papa do a video pushing his/her manaquin into a bush and see what happens. What was Martin doing as George was fighting a bush?

        • He also says that Zimmerman says “These shall be” (which he says sounds like a religious proclamation) simultaneously with poor, poor Trayvon Martin saying “I’m begging you.”

          Well, Little Tray shouldn’t have built that Golden Calf. What was Moses — er, I mean George to do when he saw all that blasphemy?

        • ‘doesn’t “I’m begging you” sound a LOT like “I’MMA KILL YOU”’

          Zimmerman said Martin made a verbal threat to his life just before the shooting. Reich puts ‘I’m begging you’ at the start of the W-11 911 recording, about 40 seconds earlier.

          • Actually it sounds like “I’m befriending you” which suggests that TM was on facebook on his cellphone, and GZ was about to accept it but, in a moment of confusion caused by the emotion, he pulled his gun instead of his cellphone. Remember, GZ told in Hannity’s that he was shocked because his phone was not where it was supposed to be.

  2. It seems to me that there are good grounds to exclude any expert testimony on this subject. Likewise, I think jurors should be instructed that they can’t speculate on whether the screams sound like Zimmerman’s or Martins. Of course GZ could still say it was he and witnesses could testify as to what they saw or heard.

    This case is going nowhere for the state, unless they have some cell phone or GPS info that undercuts GZ’s version.

    • “I think jurors should be instructed that they can’t speculate on whether the screams sound like Zimmerman’s or Martins”

      Nah, I don’t think I agree with that. We know the jurors will at some point have heard George’s speaking voice many times (the NEN call, his statements to the cops, etc). And apparently there ARE audio/video of Trayvon speaking, etc… which we only just today discovered. Even though we haven’t yet heard his voice, I’d bet DMan or anyone else a BUNCH of cakes that it sounds nothing at all like George’s voice. So yeah… I say once the jury hears both George’s and Trayvon’s voices, LET THEM hear the screams, and decide for themselves… added to all the witness testimony etc, of course.

  3. Reich says that because the screams stopped once TM was shot, the screams were most likely TM’s. I think that’s bad reasoning. It’s more likely that the person who was obviously getting the bad end of the fight is the one screaming for help.

    I’m wondering what the state will claim happened. DD says GZ pushed TM. Was GZ winning the fight and then pulled out the gun and shot him? Did he do this knowing the police were on their way.

    DD will be key.

  4. The H+H report seems to go along with Bernie’s suggestion (made in court) that there were (possibly) two voices in the background of the 911 call made by witness 11. Under the circumstances of 2/26/12, I would almost EXPECT to have heard two voices, so this really isn’t very surprising to read today. But, the report seems to be lacking the degree of certainty that one would want (or maybe expect) from an alleged expert. Like everything else in this case, it is just another *opinion* that provides little in the way of solid conclusions.

    The Reich report seems to be saying the same (in respect to the possible presence of two people) but goes to the ridiculous extreme of adding phrases that are inaudible to anyone else. He seems to have included everything but cockatoos and door knocking, but that might still come! More seriously, I would love to hear the added utterances [“Dear God”, “but not on me”, “these shall be” (who talks like THAT?), and “I’m begging you”] audibly reproduced for the rest of us to hear. If an attempt is made to do that, I think that the claims Reich makes (about those particular phrases) will be rendered laughable, at best. Bernie’s only hope to sell THAT to a jury lies in the gullibility of the jurors, themselves. I would imagine this explains O’Mara’s battle to keep Reich’s report out of the courtroom, and makes me question the wisdom of posting the same on his website. Transparency is one thing, but shooting yourself in the foot is something else, entirely.

    If the state behaves as I expect, they will claim that the reports corroborate DeeDee’s statement, and suggest that the initial utterances were made by TM after George “bumped him” and (allegedly) tried to detain him, prompting the “get off” which (though was itself not heard in the 911 call) was followed by protestations from TM who then gained the upper hand, prompting George to call for help. Bernie will continue by saying that (once George found himself to be on the losing end of a fight that HE -allegedly- started) George called for help but drew his weapon and fired unnecessarily.

    So, if the state can make that argument “stick” in the minds of the jurors, O’Mara’s response would have to be to stipulate to the authors of those particular screams, but argue that George’s use of deadly force WAS justified because of the disparate position he found himself in, the disproportionate force now being applied by TM, and the fact that TM did not relent when witness 6 arrived and asked the pair to stop. Either that, or O’Mara will have to provide experts that claim otherwise (about the authors of the particular screams) and try to convince the jurors that HIS experts are more believable than Bernie’s experts. Again, this goes to the minds of the jurors, and their propensity to lean one way, or the other.

    That being said, which would be the safer avenue for O’Mara? To hope that the jurors will believe HIS experts over the State’s experts, or to hope that the jury will decide based on the concept of “justifiable use of deadly force” based on the disproportionate force returned by TM after the initial confrontation? The bloody pics of George’s face and head will help here, but will the suggestion of a “possibly broken nose” and “small lacerations” be enough (in their minds) to determine that TM’s assault WAS “disproportionate”, thereby justifying George’s use of deadly force? Frankly, I don’t see a “slam dunk” either way, in the scenario I just painted.

    • The only question that has to be answered is – “Was George Zimmerman reasonable in his fear that the force Trayvon Martin used against him could cause death or great bodily harm?” If the answer to that question is Yes, then even if George Zimmerman started the confrontation (Dee Dee says Trayvon started it), then George would be justified in his use of deadly force.

    • “… makes me question the wisdom of posting the same on his website. Transparency is one thing, but shooting yourself in the foot is something else, entirely.”

      No, I totally disagree. For one thing, I don’t think these “reports” are harmful to the Defense. The “Reich” one is so laughable as to be HELPFUL in my opinion. But even if they were harmful in some way, why would MOM want to try to hide them? Obviously if Bernie thinks it’ll help him, HE would release them to the public, and say, “LOOK!”, leaving MOM to react and respond… as if he had something to hide. No… for a couple reasons, I think MOM was right to put these on the site. Oh, and if he only just now received them, if they had been kept from him all this time by Bernie… then yeah, that’s even one more reason to post them, and I’m sure we’ll shortly hear from him regarding his opinion on even MORE Brady violations.

  5. Ha! I hadn’t yet read this post when I commented in your other one. And in my comment, I compared the Reich letter to LMPapa, just as you did in this post. I guess we’re onto something, eh? 😉

    • I expect a papa video any day now with a preacher voice and other EVP type phenomenon inserted in the proper areas as the “expert” states.

      The State can’t seriously be thinking about calling this guy. Considering there’s no full report from him here I wonder if they just inquired of him his thoughts and left it that. But why include it in the discovery then? They must know how silly it is.

      • I think they’re worried that MOM/West will prevail at the “Frye” hearing, and have all this junk excluded. And so as not to let it go to waste, maybe Bernie figured he better release it while he still had the chance. But as you say, yeah… WHY? Is Bernie so dumb as to think the average person (as opposed to the insane Traybots) will do anything but LAUGH at this?

      • They absolutely are. He is their expert. Not the FBI. Amazing. But they were also going to sue Harvard Law School.

  6. Just a thought but with Obama and Holder under such intense media scrutiny right now regarding Bengahzi, the IRS, and the AP, it could be a really opportune time for the defense to drop a juicy little nugget regarding Obama’s adopted son Trevon as well.

  7. Pingback: State’s Supplemental Discovery | DiwataMan

  8. Just thought I’d toss this in here as well to see what people think.

    “I’m sure everyone thought of this, but W6 spoke briefly to GZ/TM while W11 was talking to 911. Some of what he said may have been captured on the 911 call and may be misidentified as being from GZ or TM. I wonder if the experts were informed of the possibility of his voice being on the recording before doing their analysis.”

    Also, I scanned the two documents and put up OCR versions of them.

    • Well in my expert opinion I don’t believe John would be heard through W11’s phone and recorded on the SCD center’s recording system but hey if the TV can be George I guess anything can. Maybe the clicks we heard on the NEN call were really George saying “1, 2, Georgy’s coming for you, 3,4 GOT YA NEGRO!” and we just can’t hear it without the super skills of Reich.

      • Just before you said “TV”…I was thinking…did anyone on the phone during the 911 calls have their TV or Radio on? It would definitely be picked up on whoever was making the call….perhaps a murder mystery or Sunday sermon….

      • If W6 leans out his back door and hollers at the two people on the ground, why wouldn’t a phone right next door that’s picking up the hollering of the two people on the ground pick that up as well, both directly and the bounce off of the back wall of the building on the other side of the sidewalk?

        Assuming he didn’t do it in the seconds before 7:16:11 PM.

      • W11 says she muted the TV prior to the 911 call (statement comes right after the one about having the TV loud). It’s plausible they unmuted it, however, she doesn’t mention doing so in her interview with Serino.

    • All they gotta do is let this clown testify then play the actual recording to the jury. I can see them in the jury room now. Each one will hear something different. Over and over. Every time. This is really embarrassing to the Florida legal system.

  9. ‘…bandwidth of 10 Hz to 22,05 0 Hz…’ What the heck is ‘20,05 0 Hz’? I assume he means 22,000 Hz, but an ‘expert’ should write precisely for myriad reasons. Typographical errors such as this one undermine credibility. (yes, petitio principii…)

    And GZ’s next sentence that unfortunately wasn’t picked up by the cell phone.
    And then GZ said Psalm 23:4 (again not picked up)

    If not so serious this case would be comical.

    • “If not so serious this case would be comical.”

      No doubt! There’s been times when I’ve felt guilty about some of the joking around we do. But knowing everyone here (and at the Treehouse and elsewhere), I know where our hearts are. Any joking about the more serious aspects of this case are sorta like “whistling past the graveyard”, or the laughing and joking that sometimes goes on at funerals. It’s almost like, in order to keep from crying or going crazy, you HAVE to crack a joke now and then. I mentioned this in a letter I wrote to George and Shellie, and apologized to them for it… I’m pretty sure they understand.

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