In case the site ever goes down here is a copy of the pdf:
mot_for_sanctions_discovery – Copy
http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/mot_for_sanctions_fees.pdf
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DiwataMan 
I predicted that the state found out about the hospital on Aug 2nd. She said the same #5 pg. 3.
Also, It appears that NBLDR did NOT get an ID froum her for the April Iinterview as she stated that she told FDLE in Aug. that she was 18 at the time.
It looks like I’ll be taking back the idea that there are 2 DD’s based on this motion.
Judge prediction: Denied.
That old “officers of the court” bullcrap.
I agree
…no harm…
+1
Why would she deny the sanctions? It isn’t money out of her pocket; just a little from each Florida taxpayer. I would be more surprised if the defense didn’t learn more from DeeDee than something to recoup a few bucks. And also the defense will be issuing reciprocal discovery coming soon, if I heard correctly. I wonder what’s in that.
In Casey’s trial, it was the defense that pulled shenanigans and lied repeatedly about providing ordered discovery, Judge Perry did impose a sanction to Baez and the amount was around $ 500.00. It does happen, If it doesn’t happen in the case of BDLR, Judge Nelson has some splaining to do.
+1
well, the motion to depose Crump has been.
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/3/28/george_zimmerman_jud.html
I just gotta repeat this –
I was surprised that BDLR, being the prosecutor, would have taken W8’s sworn statement.
But I am speechless to learn that the statement was taken with Sybrina present.
How was Sybrina present at the first interview, I was under the impression that she was in the room with Crump, while she talked on the phone?
I can’t say, but have assumed that she was in the room with all the other players when Crump interviewed Sybrina.
According to the motion for sanctions just filed, Sybrina was present while BDLR was taking W8’s sworn statement.
This follows up on my earlier speculation that W8 may have lied to Sybrina (out of embarassment) in an earlier conversation when Sybrina would want to know why she hadn’t met W8 at the funeral.
Now that we know of Syrbrina’s presence at the BDLR statement-taking, it sheds more light on W8’s reply to BDLR’s compound question re the hospital.
Reblogged this on Justice For All and commented:
The motion may be denied, but it is now part of the record, that the prosecution has been playing footsie with the evidence and witnesses.
Exactly document every damn thing
Here is Rene’s write-up on today’s filing.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-sanctions-20130325,0,1425704.story
I am not on my computer, doing this on the phone but, wasn’t Sybrina listed as present with Crump during his interview. If so, how could she also be, sitting next to DD?
Mr. Crump did say Sybrina Fulton was present in the room with him. I did not hear Sybrina’s voice on the tape at the end of clip 1. It’s possible Sybrina was on W8’s side. There is a female voice that says OK at the very start of Crump’s recording. Not sure who that is.
I must be getting thick with age, but I thought that DD was at a different location, that is why they used the cell phones.
That is my understanding. Crump says they couldn’t do the interview in person. So W8 was not there in the same room. I’m not sure Rene didn’t confuse that. I don’t read in the motion that Sybrina was sitting beside her in Crump’s interview. Rather that she (W8) knew Sybrina could hear her so she lied about her reason for not going.
I do read that Sybrina (to my utter astonishment) was sitting beside W8 in the April 2nd interview with BDLR.
I am still getting over that, what was BDLR thinking, or was that done purposely. I also curious as to why MOM did not ask for a transcript of the conversation in August.
It seems to me DD had the whole group, Gutman/Sybrina/Tracy/Crump/BDLR kissing her butt for ALL the important information they thought she would add to the case, Crump was so impressed he announced to the media, “the recording of DD blows GZ’s defense theory out of the water.” Crump is surely keeping his flapping gums silent for imploding of DD.
imo, this seems corrupt, LE would not have allowed Sybrina to sit in on an interview with anyone, WHY did BDLR? LOL, because he was too busy kissing her butt to use good sense.
Art,
that is an interesting comment, that DD was playing both BDLR and Crump and just saying what they wanted to hear.
Wasn’t that the meeting that MOM/West said there was no recording of or transcript in their motion?
The August meeting, yes, it also, was never disclosed to the Defense. The found a report by the FDLE agents that picked her up when they search the file at the FDLE, otherwise they would have never known about it.
This was BDLR’s interview with W8 on 04/12 in Miami. Crump interviewed her in 03/12. Apparently Fulton was present for both. The interview with BDLR with the victims mother present, as a potential financial beneficiary of an indictment of GZ, is a massive conflict of interest not to mention professional malpractice by BDLR. You do not interview people while they are being intimidated by another person who stands to benefit from false testimony nor even the appearance of it. MOM should demand that BDLR be removed from the case.
If there was a doubt about the prosecution’s malicious intent in this case, I think that has been settled.
If you are replying to me , I was talking Bernies’s interview with Dee and who he said was present. He never mentioned Sybrina, for sure.
It was Nettles but thanks.
What does this mean?
“The allegations, spelled out in a new court pleading, mark a new low in the case.”
Didn’t Bernie mention who was present during his interview with DeeDee? So did he conventionally not notice Sybrina?
Wonder if she mentions the interview in her depo?
Question: What is the crime for lying at a depo ?
Have you visited the CTH recently? I was a little bit surprised that SD mentioned people by name who had been banned.
I would assume accusing prosecutors of not giving over discovery is the new low.
Here is the start of Bernie’s interview with W8 and he does a very poor job of saying who was present (we now see that was likely intentional) –
BDLR: Uh, OK..could you state your name for the record, Ma’am.
Dee Dee: [Redacted]
BDLR: OK, my name is Bernie de la Rionda. I’m an assistant state attorney. I’m going to get you to raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dee Dee: So help me God.
BDLR: OK, put your hand down. As I told you, my name is Bernie de la Rionda. I’ve been appointed by Miss Corey, who has been appointed by the governor of the State of Florida to handle this case that I’m going to be asking you questions about. Also to my right is Detective..uh..or Investigator T.C. O’Steen with the State Attorney’s office. We’ve come from Jacksonville, here along with some agents with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and we are at [redacted] because you have agreed to come here today, is that correct?
Full Transcript Here: http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/deedeestatetranscript.pdf We hear she was uncooperative with FDLE. Did she only agree to an interview if it took place in a friendlier environment? Did she agree to give a statement if she could give it in Sybrina’s home? Whose idea was that?
I stopped reading the CTH site when people started posting here. I’ve said all I have to say about the matter. What others think of me is none of my business. My focus now is helping the defense shine a light on as much as possible and getting George out from under this political show going on in the State of Florida.
He does not name these people either:
We’ve come from Jacksonville, here along with some agents with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
Maybe Sybrina was hiding in the closet but DeeDee knew she was in it.
My question about the new “low” was meant sort of like a joke but what was the previous “low?’
You’ve mentioned a few times that it is surprising that no one from DD’s family/friends have come forward with any info on her. I don’t know who she was with when she did the “telephonic” interview with Crump but, there is no mention of her mother or any family members being present at the BDLR sworn statement which took place at Sybrina’s house. Wouldn’t you think her mother would accompany her as a support system if nothing else. BDLR asked her if she “lived with herself” haha, and she said she lived with her mother.
I know nothing about her friends or family.
Nettles, I have also stopped posting at CTH. I loved that site but the attacks on O’Mara seem totally counterproductive. There seem to be many extra expectations of him which I consider to be completely unrealistic. I’m thankful that this site exists so I can discuss this latest mindblowing development!!!
+1
+1
+1
ditto to the mind blowing observation…..
Life is stranger than Fiction
I’m with you, Tara. You’ve read my mind and written down what you saw there — word for word and exactly to the letter. Thank you for all you’ve done for the Zimmermans, and for all of us here.
Much love to all you “legal immigrants” listed above me and below me on this particular thread, who now reside in Diwataman’s Tent City, at The House of Rumpole, Boricuafudd’s Casa Inmigrante, Mike McDaniel’s Manor, The Talk Left Law School of Dean Jeralyn and other fine establishments that will take in those found wandering in the cyber-desert.
To get here though, we sometimes slow down alongside a certain tree along the way, look over and wish best regards to those nice folk still holding up the fort there. Thanks for the memory!
Greets from the artist formerly known as “Anonymous” . . .
That’s not he first time that SD announced those that disagreed with him.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/09/et-tu-omara-considering-a-very-experienced-and-competent-criminal-trial-lawyer/
Recognize some names?
Yes, I remember that. I was one that tried to see both sides and I still do but it still pains me a bit to see criticism of the defense this late in the game.
Anything we want to do about the BGI will not be successful until this trial is over.
I have written my views before about what steps I think are possible to make changes.
just checking in for a moment. I am at Warnanbool at the moment.
This is the typical SD – he gives no right of reply with his attacks.
Needling SD about Tenet vs Tenant is not being rude. I repeat I never cared about errors due to ESL or faulty keyboards. He attacked me personally on another occasion when someone said something, at a time when I had not even attempted to post.
SD does not like it when people point out he is or could be wrong!!
I am guessing everyone will be rethinking their DeeDee theories after this. I did not read all of the exhibits so are there any portions of what DeeDee said in there in writing or in audio?
I saw no mention of an attorney being present.
No mention of’ “missing” cell phones and/or records, ping logs, etc. Does this mean they do no exist or that MOM has the stuff he needs? Where is Waltherppk? If you show up, walther I have a suggestion for you while Robert is following the TH and RT thread today. Tell him what you want MOM to know. I would do it at RT.
Is it possible this is a “test” motion before others are filed?
Sorry to see the controversy over at CTH. I was surprised to see that Tara quit. As I said in the very first post on the thread.. I will wait to see what others say. I am still on the sidelines. Now both Robert Jr. AND Sr. have commented .. see RT for more of their posts.
BTW. I have never seen this site before.
http://gztruthandjusticecenter.wordpress.com/
That’s the person who Leatherman scared away with legal threats. He/she’s returned without the attacks on the dear Professor (lolz).
Hi Jordan – What Omara-West PROVED – is that Bernie is BLOCKING reasonable discover. This includes the normal police work to get the Cell-phone dumped of its phone numbers (that it was talking to). We still do not know WHAT DeeDees phone number was. Given the “coached lies” she has admitted to – I doubt that Bernie can continue with his PCA document – because he has NO WITNESS. Further, he must be fired by Corey – and a “clean” prosecutor must be appointed to replace him. Bernie was profoundly incompetent to conduct a “hidden” interview with DeeDee – who is a mature adult – and needed no “protection” at all. This entire case is corrupted by Bernie.
I think BLDR is following instructions.
Absolutely. The question is from whom.
He works for Corey so she would be my guess.
Corey has a boss too but she is going to be the fall guy.
The blog author contributed at the CTH periodically. You may recognize the avatar he uses in his twitter account. https://twitter.com/The_Hoff71 He in the past mostly blogged about the lameness of Leatherman.
Sorry, but I do not understand your post.
You mentioned this blog and that you haven’t seen it before: http://gztruthandjusticecenter.wordpress.com I was merely giving some background to it’s author.
I had commented on it before he was forced to move it by Leatherman’s groupies complaining of libel that Mike was saying about him. I just thought you might like some insight to it
Thanks.,. now I get it but is that guy an advocate?
Yes he is. And a great one!
His bio is on his blog.
I have always been in Georges corner. Because I no longer recognize Traybots as individuals does not mean that I have ran away from any or all of them. When you single one out, an avalanche of butthurt is released that I would rather not see fill up my personal email anymore. There was never any defamation or libel, I still stand by anything I stated prior to this shift in how I post.
I hope you didn’t that thInk thought you libeled anyone. But from what I remember, you were accused of that and had to find another home for you blog.
Not at all, but he can cry defamation until he is blue in the face though. It didn’t happen. These traybots love to throw that word around to intimidate and harass. The way I post now is a personal choice as they have evolved into the Group Think Hive Mind. They have repeated each other to such a point that there is no longer one of them there is all of them.
So no I didn’t think you thought that at all.
re: Robert’s recent tweets. I see nothing wrong with him pointing out that the MEDIA, unless you specifically watched the videos where Mother described teens as black, deliberately did not include the race in the description of the suspects in the baby shooting in the written articles because we did not have a black victim. This time we had a white toddler as the victim. Why is it wrong for Robert to post about it? Why is it wrong for him to show similarities in thug lifestyle (Elkins/Trayvon)? I see nothing wrong with him doing that. I see nothing wrong with him saying there is a problem with violence and teens that follow the black thug life style. Just my IMO. I think he’s smart enough to define any statements against any attacks made on him of being a racist. This topic of racism will most certainly come up during the trial, and whether Robert talks about MEDIA or not they will try to brand them as racists anyway. Which leads me to ask why would defense bother to request school records, MMA fighting videos and online FB/Tweets of Trayvon, if they did not intend to show he wasn’t the sweet lil boy everyone made him out to be. Ppl say they will not try to tear down the victim. But it was the sweet lil boy that tried was doing the beat down on GZ.
What is the time limit that the State would have to disclose information to the defense once they become aware of it?
Can the State sit on lies like this until the eve of the window closing on the discovery phrase?
I thought it was something like 20 days.
BTW, thanks for the tip. I also read the OS article by RS. Seems to be one of her fairest ones to date.
hey there Justice, when the biased MSM is challenged, they’ll have to respond, and even possibly fire some folks, I recall Sundance complaining (before I was kicked out) that Mark Osterman’s Book and Dr Phil show appearance was the wrong thing to do,
the times they are a changin’
(j) Continuing Duty to Disclose. If, subsequent to compliance with the rules, a
party discovers additional witnesses or material that the party would have been under a duty
to disclose or produce at the time of the previous compliance, the party shall promptly
disclose or produce the witnesses or material in the same manner as required under these
rules for initial discovery.
IN REGARDS TO INITIAL DISCOVERY:
(b) Prosecutor’s Discovery Obligation.
(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor
shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the
defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material
within the state‘s possession or control, except that any property or material that portrays
sexual performance by a child or constitutes child pornography may not be copied,
photographed, duplicated, or otherwise reproduced:
BUT WHO KNOWS? Every time I read a statute it turns out that there is some OTHER decision that overrules the statute itself.
Where’s John Galt when you need him?LOL
15 days? What a joke.
It’s why I like speedy trials. Get it on and over with. Show me what you got. What did they have? Nothing but a phony PCA.
I believe it is 25 days, I always assumed that the reason that BDLR was protecting DD was because how bad she was during the interview, but now I see that there was a lot more involved,
The Florida rules for discovery were posted and discussed several times at CTH. I even posted them myself once.
Then someone said that some sort of “deal” had been made between the state and defense. I asked several times what the terms were and if a document had been filed with court.
If someone had that answer, I missed it. The motion is based more on false and/or misleading discovery more than time.
To be totally honest, it does not matter as the prosecution was not following the rules.
Even so I would like to know if a deal was made. This motion is NOT based primarily on time. So we do not know for sure how much time is actually allowed.
Oh Good Gravy~ Been busy with Family in from out out state. LOL I was telling my bro some of the stuff on this case, off top of head. Then I got text from a blog friend telling me about the Motion filed today! So I am off to read it now, read all of the interesting comments first. Isnt tomm the date that the Expert Witness stuff is due? Wonder if this kind of stuff they found out is why the def seemed os confident in having a continued or another depo with DD?
Why is I come up anonymous? Above comment was mine, MIMI
I notice that happens once in a while.
Maybe you should become Anonymimious! Mimionymous? Arkamimious? LOL JK
Lol Sometimes ArkansasMimi is too much to keep up with lol you silly boys~ Rumpole LMBO undercover~ Wow this was exciting to come read happened while I been away
You were working undercover 😮
Well, what else “Deedee”? What else did she lie about? Many Many things……..I predict.
While Bernie found out that W8 wasn’t in the hospital on August 2nd, he found out she wasn’t a juvenile in his April 2nd interview. I think he found out she lied by accident and he said nothing.
He asked her in that interview how long she had lived there. They redacted her answer. Bernie asked “You whole life?” and she answered no.
So we have the State Prosecutor knowing W8 lied on April 2nd and they still went ahead and filed charges. Un-freaking-believable!
Then he find out in August and lie #2 and still proceeds onwards.
Nettles,
remember I was asking when was the last mention by the Scheme Team in regards to DD, I think we had narrowed it down to March 30th, when they were still describing her as a minor. Now we know why, they must have found out that she had lied about her age. I wonder what else they found out after BDLR left.
I always found it strange how the Scheme Team just stopped mentioning DD, she was the one who “connected the dots”, but she was not mentioned anymore.
For those that were sympathetic to Sybrina, it seems she thick as thieves in involvement in this.
Sybrina Fulton is very much a part of W8’s statement. She has been caught lying to investigators when she said she never discussed the events of that night with W8. Crump proved she did.
I hate to say it, and perhaps I am dead wrong, but every photo I see of Sybrina … she looks very intimidating. To me she does. If she does to me, just an average schmoe, then I would imagine her presence with W8 was intimidating too. Now I’m wondering seriously what they did to this girl.
Since DD’s deposition came before Sybrina’s I’ll bet that added a whole new set of questions. Questions of which she may not have been prepared. If Crump was there as her lawyer, I wonder if he started to sweat a little.
I’ve seen no evidence that W8 told the family and the family’s lawyers she was 16. I can’t think of a good reason why an 18 year old girl would feel a reason to lie about that. Her making that statement to Mr. Crump is not on any recording I’ve heard, so we only have Mr. Crump’s word and hers that she said it. Her word isn’t trustworthy nor is Mr. Crump’s. He accused a police department of a conspiracy but to this day hasn’t shown evidence of it. He accused GZ of being racist with no evidence and an exhaustive FBI investigation failed to turn up evidence of it.
It is likely that the person coaching W8 to put all the talking points into her statement (Arizona Tea Can, Hoodie, Little Brother, Half-time) told her to lie about her age.
In reading yesterday’s motion, it’s likely $ybrina Fulton was the coach, taking tips no doubt from Crump and Julison.
I can see why the family wanted her to be 16. It fits the girlfriend narrative better and it helps keep the press away and the court will provide a child more cover than an adult. Can you think of a reason an 18 year old would decide to lie about that on her own?
“In reading yesterday’s motion, it’s likely $ybrina Fulton was the coach, taking tips no doubt from Crump and Julison”
When I first read that, I thought it was a typo. I will use that from now on.
Maybe we’ll get some more clarity on the age issue after the 2nd deposition.
According to MOM’s deposition of DD, she told the lie on her own, and repeated it to BDLR on April 2nd because Sybrina was seating next to her. Since all of them are liars it is possible that she is falling on the sword to protect them, knowing that the prosecution will not charge her. I mean they knew she had lied back in April and still went ahead, so she feels safe.
She had served her purpose as an earwitness to bulldoze to charges being filed. At that point the prosecution went full steam ahead to bring the full power of the state upon GZ and make him give up and plead guilty. W8 was to never be heard from again. Everybody but GZ was going to get what they wanted. It is really amazing that it did not work out that way.
Every day that passes it sure looks that way. What a FUBAR situation,
That was in regards to the lie about the hospital. It hasn’t been explained why she lied about her age to Crump and Gutman. I cannot think of why she would lie about that to them. I can come up with plausible reasons why Crump wants her to be a juvenile, but I can’t figure out why she, on her own, would make herself 16 to them. What possible reason could she have had?
For that we might need to ask her coach Sybrina, but I think it would be more believable is she was the same age as Trayvon, rather than 2 yrs older. I know the consensus is Crump was the mastermind, I am wondering if the family was the one that came up with all of this, and Crump is just a greedy Chump that fell for it.
I think she had something to hide, and hoped, incorrectly, she could avoid getting dragged into everything if people thought she was 16.
That is why she told everyone she was 16.
And I am completely on board with DiwataMan’s theory on Deedee.
Without a doubt, the most likely scenario. She knows exculpatory information, but is under duress not to tell it as that wouldn’t be “keeping it real”.
Remember in the first bond hearing, where GZ’s family members testified under oath, there was someone located at the location where they testified from who had to check their identities. From what I’ve read an ID can be a Driver’sLicense, Social Security Card, Credit Card, Library Card etc. Many of those ID’s do not include a person’s age. Did BDLR even ask her for any ID when he conducted his interview with her? I haven’t heard a thing about that.
I remember reading in the past that BDLR said to O’Mara after one of the court hearings something to the effect of “are you sure DD is a minor”? That was referred to in the latest motion.
Wasn’t DD interviewed by the FBI? I thought I read that somewhere. If that was the case, the FBI knew what color underware she wore on March 5, 2005. No doubt the state had gotten those reports and knew wxactly how old she was. She may have told them she lied about her age, but I have serious doubts that they didn’t already know her age long ago.
Hi Nettles – You are right. Bernie was “hot” to find the witness “discovered” Crump – that had to be hidden from the defense. That’s criminal collusion on Bernie’s part. Further, Bernie AVOIDED asking the lying questions of DeeDee – like why did she not all the police – OR NOTIFY ANYONE AT ALL! DeeDee was truly a “plant”. I doubt that any “phone call” happened – because the cell-phone battery was DEAD. Let us hope the PCA document becomes a dead as that battery! Thanks for your up-dates!
It even worse when you think that assuming BDLR, was not complicit on this, and he is expecting a 16-year-old, in comes this 18-year-old, after for weeks it had been proclaimed that she was a minor. He had to know right then and there that she was trouble, and guided the interview to elicit what he needed to charge. Sorry, BDLR is scum.
Bernie didn’t even ask her in that April 2nd interview, “Why did you tell Mr. Crump you were 16?” We all know why.
That is what I mean, he did not want to know, or rather he did not want her to answer on the record. But, he knew before the questioning even started that she had lied. How you continue with this farce of an interview?
And lay charges based on “the new information” 9 days later. Why would a prosecutor put his job on the line like this? Is he protected? He acts like he is.
It will be quite telling with how the Judge handles these revelations.
He got to think that he is, otherwise he might, just be to egotistical to care if caught.
QUITE telling, indeed.
I had said way back that when she made that statement an his reaction, “you whole life” was when he knew; but, he continued on like he didn’t; giving him plausible deniability. After Aug. 2nd, he could no longer say that, but he kept his mouth shut until that October hearing where he wanted to make sure MOM/West knew he never said that. And they call George a potted plant!
As I understand it, when the unredacted copy of the interview was giving to the defense it was learned she was 18 at the time of Crump’s interview.
So there is proof that BDLR knew on April 2nd.
We’re just splitting hairs here. Did BLDR know on Apr 2nd? Absolutely. Will he admit that he knew then? Absolutely not. That’s what I was trying to say. After Aug. 2nd he could no longer say he didn’t know. Still shameful on the state’s part of them are using the excuse that they didn’t feel that informttion was relevant or could be seen as exculpatory. How is it that THEY decide that? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to give the information to the defense and let them decide?
I heard Mr. O’Mara say this discovery process has been usual. He is usually buried in documents by the prosecution but he’s had to fight to get documents every step of the way.
**has been unusual.
Random Topics seems to be down – anybody heard from Rumpole 2 lately?
Look above. He was on here tonight at 11:54 p.m.
Ah, he’s back….must have been a network glitch…
As to why BDLR let things get away from him … I think it’s like a lot of us thought from the beginning. They never thought it would get this far. They thought GZ would just plea out. Yeah, they rattled the sabres so the guy would get scared of being convicted and not carry thru to trial. It’s the only thing I can think of other than them just being really stupid.
I think that you are correct. They never expected the case to go this far.
Ottawa – I am certain you are correct. Scott probably told Corey to, “get rid of this case – tamp it down – get George to shut up – otherwise we will have Thug-riots”.
So Corey figured she could write a lying PCA document and threaten George with life in prison – an force a “plea deal” for a crime he did not commit. This is indeed Corey-NiFong – all over again.
Normal procedure is to run the case based on the evidence which includes not charging w/o a reasonable belief in securing a conviction.
Admittedly politics forced this case outside of normal evolution. But it is less likely that GZ was charged w/ Murder2 just in the hopes of getting him to plead to a lesser offense.
Hooson,
I think we can safely say this case has been far from normal.
I think this motion is a ploy for more money and won’t be successful. MOM doesn’t care about exposing Crump, Corey, et al. He’s just pandering to GZ supporters who think he should be waging a war in order to get the donations flowing again. And if he’s lucky he might get some money from the state too.
I don’t know MOM motivations. His actions are consistent with an assertive defense of GZ.
+1
If O’Mara wanted to ask for more money, he would have asked for more money. He’s done it before … and it worked.
Hey rovatek, I decided to make another donation, in your name. 🙂
Me too, a week earlier than usual . . . thanks for the reminder, rovarama !
[gives peace sign, air fist bump, throws kisses]
I guess the defense knew that there was a second interview of DD by BDLR and that Sybrina was in the room during the first interview because of information they got from DD’s deposition. But they don’t mention DD’s deposition.
I’m curious, does the Brady case require the prosecution to inform the defense of information that it knows is exculpatory even if it isn’t in written or physical form?
Why the heck would BDLR interview DD a second time and not record it?
I think you answered you own question, if it is written or recorded he has to supply it to the Defense, right now he might be Okay, under attorney work product. The thing is there are exceptions and Brady material I believe one of them.
“Dee Dee” has been discussed over and over, but I can’t recall whether we know for sure that she even talked to TM just before he died. I remember the so-called phone records that Tracy had, but does prosecution actually have proof that TM was on the phone to “Dee Dee” that night?
Hi Self – So far, no one has bothered to get INDEPENDENT phone records from the phone company. We only have the “pasted-together” records provided by Tracy-Crump. This is where “Discovery” is a total failure. I have severe doubts that DeeDee was even talking to TM in that critical last ten minutes. Not only is DeeDee a self-confessed liar – but here presumed TM-conversation – NEVER TOOK PLACE – if you look for objective evidence that it did. You can thank Corey-Bernie for that level of obfuscation.
Thanx, myopiafree. That is what I thought- that we do not know for sure that she actually was talking to TM just before he died. Actually, we don’t know that “no one has bothered to get independent phone records”. We just know that we haven’t seen any phone records. We do know that the records for that time frame were missing from the phone that was sent out of state by the prosecution. It is my greatest desire (next to seeing GZ granted immunity) to see Corey and that corrupt bunch of politicians put out to pasture with no pensions. (Just a pipe dream, I know). If Nelson (the stringy haired judge) grants motion for sanctions it will be a miricle.
We know the phone records for DD were received on April 2, apparently TM records were received in late March, by Brenton. This is where it gets murky, because there are 2 more pages that reference the phone records, one was to T-Mobile to reactivate a phone number and the other a request for call data, that one came back no records found, also from T-Mobile, those are dated in April.
The point is the phone data, ping logs, etc have been delivered to the Defense, they will not be released due to Federal privacy laws.
The defense filed a redacted witness list with the court yesterday.
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001083A
130 witness names on the list.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-defense-witness-list-20130326,0,6953235.story
“SANFORD – Attorneys for George Zimmerman have filed a new defense witness list, and it includes more than 130 people. Among them: Trayvon Martin’s mother and father, their attorney Benjamin Crump, former Sanford police Chief Bill Lee Jr. and former State Attorney Norm Wolfinger.
It also includes Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte and several other members of Trayvon’s family, including his step-brother and the Oviedo cousin with whom he’d spent the night the evening before he was fatally shot.
Attorneys seldom call all the witnesses they list, still the list placed in the official court file Monday is extraordinary for its length.”
I wonder if there is a run on defense attorneys in Florida today. It looks like they are all going to be busy.
LOL
So we now hear more about the cousin from the night before. I have shown his tweets on feb 28 re: trayvon putting bangaz to george and saw him high in a garage with trayvon taking photo night before. So who was watching chad that night? Lets ask daddy-o if they blazed with chad, mr faher of the year. The cousin even teeeted how trays dad would buy them blunts instead if expensive shoes. So let him answer that while the cousin explains how on feb 28 6 Am he know trayvon whooped george. Esp as jasmine rand would go on to imply trayvons body was missing for 44 days in mark furmans meat locker. This whole thing is like a flapjack pairing of lies – piled high and the media eats it without thought. Q everything and everybody until somebody cracks and show those tweets. They are irresponsible and also hiding something.
Not surprising that Norm Wolfinger is on that list. I had the feeling that he would factor into this case someway. Whatever else Crump may or may not have done, it is wrong to assassinate a man’s character if you have no proof of wrong doing. As my Grana taught me, in the end, a good name is rather to be chosen over anything else.
Saves money, and after acquittal (if it gets that far), the defamers will be more amenable to coming to a settlement instead of going to a trial.
Does NBC think that George is going to be convicted? Or they’re just praying that he will be?
Forget what NBC, that Beasly would so easily allowed a continuance tells me that they are confident they are going to prevail. They can wait, they will get paid at the end.
To NBC, these lawsuits are cost of doing business, and a nuisance, and they have deep pockets. In their favor is that they fired some people involved (if I remember correctly). So this thing is mainly a nuisance.
For the defense, it is the matter of allocation of scarce resources.
What!!!!
What about the motion to depose Crump? The motion to get ABC recording? What is going on?
Does Nettles ever rule on motions without having a hearing? Can’t she respond without doing that?
It could be Crump has signalled he won’t fight the deposition and ABC may have provided defense with recording.
Amazing how log-jams clear in discovery when allegations of wrong-doing are put in writing.
Yet there is nothing in the record. Wow. So much for sunshine.
+1
You mean JUDGE Nettles18?
Word on the street is that she is one tough Canuck when she puts on that black robe!
+1,000,000
I just saw this.. funny. .Of course, I meant Nelson .
What is going on? Is there an inside indication that they are going to get a continuance? I thought the 04/02 was a docket sounding that the judge insisted upon.
Well she was booked for Vacation!
check RT. 130 defense witnesses plus hearing canceled by state ?
I hope she enjoys her time off because she has a huge mess to come back to work on. This is why they dropped this on her before she is off for Easter break. LOL.
If the state requested that the April 2 hearing be postponed until April 20, I predict that the later date will be a Richardson hearing. From my understanding of the Fla. Rules for Criminal Discovery, because the defense submitted a motion accusing the state of discovery (Brady) violations, the judge is “required” to delve into the allegations, and the state would have to make a reasonable argument for the reason for the violations. The defense has the documentation on their side with their many requests from the state for information, and many times were just outright ignored by the state. The real lynchpin for the defense though will be the videotapped deposition of DD where she stated that she told the state several months ago that she lied about the hospital visit and/or her age. How does the state argue against videotapes of their star witness? If the state can’t make a reasonable argument in their favor, and I can’t imagine how they can, and the judge rules in the state’s favor, that would be an immediate cause for appeal. IMO the judge is sitting right between a rock and a hard place.
I think Bernie was present during the depos so he knows everything she said so he has time prepare a story.
I wonder if we will get to see any of the transcript supporting the defense motion for sanctions.
jordan2222 – in Casey’s case, Linda Drane Burdick and Jeff Ashton attended EVERY deposition of every defense witness, Baez/Mason attended EVERY State deposition. YEP, BDLR was sitting there or Guy was sitting there pooping their pants at the deposition of DD.
imo, it seems DD should be disqualified as a witness to anything she would testify to during the trial. DD’s participation has been mucked up & questionable since Tracy or Crump contacted her in the beginning. If this has been above board, she would have come forward and sat down for her interview with LE & would have honestly been videoed, LE would have ask her NOT do interviews and Crump KNEW this. DD chose from ignorance or intimidation to do so w/Crump so he could grandstand in the Media and do “exclusive interviews” w/Gutman. The starting and stopping of the Audios by Crump reek to high heaven, this wouldn’t have been the case if DD had been interviewed w/LE. Judge Nelson imo has made some serious errors in Judgement trusting Crump/Blackwell/BDLR. I don’t see how she could deny some extended time to the Defense if they need it at this point.
I never understood Bondi saying DD “wasn’t cooperating” or WHY DD had to be hunted down to do her depo or interview for 4 hours, did Bondi/Corey think it was a good idea to allow Sybrina to sit in w/DD to get her participation? This is outrageous, I have followed many high profile cases since the OJ Simpson trial, I have never heard of any Prosecutor or DA making concessions to a witness as has been made in this case, and DD lied and EXPOSED the process and efforts Crump/BDLR/Gutman were willing to go.
They will argue that it was not a deposition because it really wasn’t so IDK.
I am just learning the latest news and I’m so excited I can barely think straight. 🙂
My first thoughts: Crump must be absolutely sick right now! I had prayed again and again that DeeDee would come clean but never really thought she’d do it … and she did! Good job, Defense team!
Second thoughts: Did ABC provide their full recording to the Defense? Because the dialogue in paragraph 3 of the motion didn’t come from any of the recordings we’ve heard, unless I’m massively confused here.
This is truly amazing.
DeeDee lied to Crump because Sybrina was present during that interview?? And Sybrina was present for BDLR’s interview of DeeDee?
I remember in the discovery docs it was stated that “some time in March” Sybrina met with DeeDee, at Sybrina’s home. I hope that the Defense was able to extract, like a rotted tooth, the exact date of that meeting. Witness tampering?
That statement by Sybrina was a slip, according to their official story, Tracy did not find out about DD until late on Sunday March 18th. The next day in the morning Crump had set-up the interview and on Tuesday he did the grand press conference.
So this alleged meeting had to take place between late Sunday night and very early Monday morning, before DD went to school, unless that is another lie and he does not attend school. In that case they knew about DD before hand and never reported her until they could talk to her.
Crump’s lawyer has file a responsee
Click to access 2013-03-26-crump-resp-in-opp-to-def-m-reconsideration.pdf
So Blackwell’s biggest argument is that the defense didn’t like the judge’s original ruling that he wouldn’t be deposed, and is just coming back for another shot at it. LOL
This line was a classic- “there can be no showing of any possible inconsistency in her testimony that is relevant or otherwise material to any deposition of Atty. Crump.”
Crump’s response- When she went to the deposition, she shudna got outta da cah. Sorry Crump, looks like your connected dots are coming unconnected.
Arrogant creep he starts by asserting that motion is the wrong one, instead of a Motion for Reconsideration, MOM should have filed a Motion for a Re-hearing, so let’s not waste the courts time and just deny the order.
I’d love to read Sybrina and Tracy’s depositions pertaining to their meetings w/DD and how she was found, did they lie again I wonder to the defense, and did ?
Just because Sybrina and Tracy have worked their stories so they matched, LOL, obviously they didn’t work it out w/DD nor did Crump.
Sybrina, Tracy, and Crump are probably fighting with each other right now. The truth has come out, star witness has decided to come clean, and it ruins all hope they had that a jury could be bamboozled.
Wait, star witness coming clean? Did something happen that I’m not aware of?
I have a little hope DeeDee with have a conscience and morals and end this whole circus once and for all and JUST TELL THE TRUTH.
TM told DD he was going to &^*&(&* up this guy that was eyeballing him. We all know that is what really happened. But we have people now trying to make money over the dead body of an innocent man.
Courtesy of Ottawa925 at the CTH, we have Bruce Blackwell’s response to the renewed motion to depose Ben Crump:
Click to access 2013-03-26-crump-resp-in-opp-to-def-m-reconsideration.pdf
There’s a second motion for sanction:
Click to access mot_for_sanctions_fees.pdf
Apparently Bernie stalled the depo of W8 for five hours by refusing to allow it to be videotaped.
LOL. Simultaneous posting. Can you believe he objected to videotaping W8? I wonder why?
He’ll probably try to argue that it’s an attempt at doxxing her. But we all know the real reason. The whole DeeDee fabrication is crumbling and they want to hide it.
That explains why Blackwell refers to the partial deposition of DD, wonder which birdie told him about how the proceedings went.
HT to from below and cbolt at TalkLeft forum: another motion was added http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/mot_for_sanctions_fees.pdf
“Evidently BDLR objected to the videotaping of the depo of #8 so they had to delay for 5 hours.”
“O’Mara argues that the objection by Bernie had no basis in law.”
http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2360.msg108035/topicseen.html#msg108035
I think we know now why there was a second day of depositions. BDLR had a meltdown.
Yes, this might very well explain the 2nd day of witness 8’s deposition. I wonder if Bernie had similar objections to the videotaping of the OTHER depositions on Thursday and Friday of that same week? Apparently not, since there is not mention of it. So now Bernie will simply argue that he opposed the videotaping out of “safety concerns” for his prevaricating actress. Is he really concerned about her safety, or is he merely trying to conceal her lies?
It might be pointed out to him that W8 fessed up as soon as she was out of the presence of Fulton and since he and Crump chose to unprofessionally, unethically, and with conflict of interest subjected W8 to being “minded” by Fulton who has a financial interest in how and what W8 testified. Both have violated several professional and ethical standards at the least.
It sounds like to me it took 5 hours to get the Judge to rule video-taping was allowed. You will note in the notice to depose posted after the video-taping stayed in but some witnesses who were in the drafts don’t appear to have been deposed.
Victim’s Step-Mom, Cousin Stephen (W25)’s parents, Miriam and Stephen Sr.
For the defense to have gotten the information from DD about her telling BDLR that she lied about the hospital visit, they had to have spent at least a little time deposing her. I’m wondering if the judge did in fact give them permission to videotape, or if the defense just went with audiotaping for the short time they spent deposing her, and may be awaiting the judges ruling before continuing. Blackwell’s filing of today still refers to a partial deposition of DD. I found it interesting that DD said she was intimidated by Sybrina and that caused her to lie. Obviously she was accompanied by BDLR to the defense deposition and apparently wasn’t intimidated by him enough to sit with him in the room and tell MOM/West when she told him that she lied to him which proved that BDLR was lying, at least by omission in not disclosing that to the defense timely.
The two lies had been confirmed before the deposition. Where are you reading Blackwell referred to a partial deposition of W8?
Blackwell said it himself in his latest court filing
There is a post at RT that they did not video tape the depo.. it’s the second account I have seen.
Yes, in Rene’s article she said after 5 hours they started the deposition with taping it and did not finish.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-defense-witness-list-20130326,0,6953235.story
Are you sure?
“and after a five-hour delay, began the deposition WITHOUT the videotape.” (my emphasis)
Sorry, my typing sucks today. So does my proof-reading. Yes they went ahead without taping. Thanks for catching that and clearing it up. 🙂
There must have been a change in the article:
\
and after a five-hour delay, began the deposition WITHOUT the videotape. They did not complete it.
It was my typing mistake. I apologize for the confusion.
K 😀
Nettles, I have read this comment of yours and was in lock step with you until you posted below the link where you point to Rene’s article stating they did proceed without the taping. Prior to that I was going out on a limb thinking like you, that although it does not MOM’s motion does not finish the story for us, which I think he should have done, was state if the Court had ever come back to them at the dep to make a call on whether they could or could not videotape. This is soooo mind blowing. Let’s review:
1) MOM sends out Draft notices that state video taping
2) Mom follows by sending out formal notices that state video taping
3) BDLR does nothing till he gets to the dep and then at that time objects to video
4) They call the judge but she’s not around and await her call back
5) They wait 5 hours (eye rolling here)
6) Apparently the Judge does call back after 5 hours and says she’s making the call on the side of the state and says no video tape
7) The proceed with dep of W8 with no video tape.
8) Defense files motion for sactions for attorneys fees for the cost of the 5 hours.
****************************
Rewind – Here would be me.
Include 1, 2, 3, and 4 from above, except I would state that if the Judge did not call back within the hour, the dep would be cancelled for that day, and to resume once a ruling on the video tape had be worked out not only for W8’s dep, but for all the others as well. You eat the hours worth of time, and move on. MOM racked up $5,000 by not doing that, and it may be $5,000 he has to now eat.
To me this is stupid on MOM’s part. Sorry.
I wrote this at RT in response to a question fron JG:
John_Galt wrote:
Did Nelson rule in favor of BDLR or did MOM fail to SYG?
You would know better than I, but here’s my reasoning that she allowed it for the 2nd deposition. First, she didn’t give a decision for the one on the 13th and they went ahead sans video, but did record it aurally. The second was on the 22nd, according to Mike McDaniel who said he had a reliable source for that information. Since the motion for monetory damage came out today, I think it’s safe to say she allowed it. If not, I doubt that they would have asked for reimbursement.
Like I said, you could probably see if that is correct.
Ottawa, this is also in response to what you wrote. I believe that she was videoed on the 22nd.
Well what is mysterious to me is why MOM’s Motion is ambiguous as to what the Judge’s decision was when she did call back. Why do I have to read Rene’s article to find out what the outcome was? That should have all been in Mom’s Motion at least for the record to complete the story should that Motion ever be part of something on appeal. Finish the damn story, MOM !!! or whoever wrote that darn thing. And how does Rene find out this info and not give a source to verify her claim. When you have read 50 different things to put a story together … that’s not good.
My guess is that there would have been great risk if they did that.
Apparently the court never got back to MOM/West to make a ruling. Nelson is awaiting instructions from Washington.
Does anyone know who W25 is. There were depositions listed for father and mother of W25.
Can you explain?
W25 is the cousin Stephen (Boobie) Martin. His parents are Miriam and Stephon Sr.
Stephen (boobie) Martin. His parents are the ones Trayvon was living with. Stephen Sr and Mariam.
Can it get any more obvious just how malicious this prosecution is?
OMG BDLR is such an A$$! Why would BDLR object to the videoing of DD’s deposition and apparently I guess he didn’t even bother reading the notice of deposition which clearly states it would be recorded? No matter what happens, LOL, volunteer’s in MOM’s office are burning videos of the deposition.
I bet BDLR looked like a helicopter ready to take off w/his rapid flailing of his arms, what a moron.
John Galt has a theory why BDLR did not want a video deposition;
“A video deposition recording is immediately available, unlike an ordinary deposition in which a reporter must produce a transcript, tender the transcript for review and correction or execution by the deponent. If BDLR didn’t put W8 on the final witness list, an ordinary deposition transcript might never be generated or filed with the court and might never see the light of day.”
He has a point.
I believe waltherppk has an alternate, equally plausible theory. Perhaps The DeeDee is actually a ventriloquist’s dummy that can’t “talk” unless perched on Sybrina’s lap. 🙂
MY theory includes an electric dog collar with Sybrina holding the remote…
At this point I, that is plausible
Why wouldn’t a video taped deposition have to be accompanied by a transcript, especially since the previous recordings of DD have been very hard to understand because of her lingo. MOM/West have submitted billing for a court reporter which would have been transcribing the interview. What would happen if somehow the video became damaged and unusable? IMO there would have to be a transcript no matter the method of recording.
I can’t see how the case could go to trial without the state’s star witness. She was the one who supposedly provided the information about GZ stalking TM, especially when she said to BDLR that TM had lost GZ, and was near his father’s house, and then there was GZ again asking what he was doing around there. Also when she told BDLR that she heard a bump, like someone hitting TM, and then she heard the grass. She is trying to prove that GZ was the aggressor who hit TM first.. Doesn’t the state have the obligation pf proving just those things to disprove that GZ acted in self defense? I don’t see how there can be a state case without proving those elements.
I believe if there was a video taped deposition, and it was allowed at trail, the video with the witness sitting there speaking, and especially stating that the state prosecutor knew of her lies much earlier than it was released, it is pretty powerful stuff for a jury to see.
Now that DD has proven toxic for BDLR, I wonder if there ever will be another deposition of her. I’d say DD is now in more danger than she ever was in, but, the danger is more from those in the state than anyone else. They cannot allow her to make any more toxic statements to the defense.
Does anyone know how long the state has to respond to the defense motion for sanctions?
Minpin, it is my belief that the prosecution asks for more time to weigh their options. If they lose DD there will be hole in their theory, which they can’t address right now. They know that a Richardson will probably follow, with more surprises to be found. This a delaying tactic while they decide what to do next, IMO.
I think you are correct in that the State cannot use her and maybe that is part of their plan to get out of this thing.
Maybe the hearing was delayed because both sides are meeting with Nelson to discuss a solution that will be acceptable to the BGI. If the original purpose was to prevent riots, what has changed that would prevent that? Would the exposure of a lying state star witness be acceptable? IDK how they would spin that.
Since DeeDee is now saying that the lies were her own idea, then that could even take Crump off the hook.
It is why I am not so sure she told the truth in the depo.
I suspect there is always a written transcript of depos whether they are videotaped or not.
According to Rene in her updated article, the Judge cancelled the hearing for April 2nd. If that is so, I’m sure she will reschedule another one before April 30th.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-defense-witness-list-20130326,0,6953235.story
It could have been when she saw from both sides that they did not want/need a 2 Apr hearing.
That’s unlikely. They are fighting over Mr. Crump’s deposition and time is ticking towards the trial date. She may have wanted more time to research in answering the sanction motions or Crump’s opposing counsel argument.
Regardless, I’m sure if this wasn’t an agreement from the State and Defense, the Judge will give them court time as soon as she can.
Someone speculated that the defense and state may have decided to meet and talk this over. Why not?
If that were the case, we wouldn’t have seen the usual flurry of motions they file just before the 48 hour deadline. They were hoping to have them ruled on next week I think.
Even Crump was cooperating with the deadline this time. Then the Judge cancelled. Hmmmmm.
IDK. There are several important issues up in the air. There must be a MUTUALLY good reason for the delay and also WITH Nelson’s approval who wants no more delays. As usual, something is afoot.
I would speculate that DD’s moment of truth telling with the defense has blown some really big holes that the state may not be able to patch up. I support the theory that DD got tired of being the bad guy in the media for lying about her age and the hospital visit. I can see her having felt intimidated by Sybrina for the hospital visit but, I don’t know that anything was revealed about who lied about her age, if it was her or Crump. I can easily see Crump doing the lying to keep her shielded from media scrutiny.
BDLR may be out looking for a big enough bulldozer to bury the entire GZ railroad.
You are on a roll tonight.
My opinion: They all agreed to just forget about the April 2nd court date because they need to get ready for the BIG one they know is coming now…. now that the Defense has formally accused the State of violations. That triggers a Richardson hearing. That’ll be the next hearing we see. And included in that hearing will be a demand for a continuance. Of course all this is assuming that the State doesn’t try to stop things BEFORE then. They know in the end they can never win this case, so all they’re doing by allowing it to go on is expose themselves (Bernie, Crump, others) to possible SERIOUS consequences. They may WANT to throw in the towel very soon.
I suppose Judge Nelson decided she DIDNT want to come in to “the Office” on her Vacation Day 🙂 ROFLMBO~ She said it was already a vac day, but would be in town, and didnt mind coming to court if they had stuff that needed to be delt with. ROFLMBO tooo funny
So confident you are there will be a Richardson Hearing, don’t you owe me a cake by the way, MUWAHAHAHAHAAAA! WHERE’S MY CAKE BEDILIA?
Oh absolutely. I’ve been asking about you the past few days… on other forums, of course. I was scared to come here and face you, under the circumstances! But yeah, I was telling people it’s now obvious that I LOST this one. For awhile it wasn’t clear, but now yep… they had SOME kind of depo anyway. So, how does this cake thing work? Lemme know… 😉
Edit DM: Man, I can’t reply to this comment in the comment section, lol. I’ve been trying to find a good template for the comment section that I also like for the main page, I’ll keep looking but until then the way it works you simply post a picture of a cake addressed to me, with a groveling message on how I am the master of all things of course 😉
Because DD has admitted that she lied to Crump, Sybrina and Bernie, it proves she is capable of lying to anyone for any reason. That alone may impeach her as a witness period. Without her the state, having the burden of proof that GZ didn’t act in self defense at trial, if it gets that far, is left even more weakened if not now non-existent. Gilbreath already admitted from the get go that the state couldn’t prove that GZ stalked TM, or that GZ was the first aggressor who attacked TM first. What else could the state possibly have?
As to the Crumpster, he is still in trouble for his doctored interview tape of DD. With the defense having possession of the ABC tape, including some of the missing spaces in Crumps recording, he is still in the hot seat for manipulation of evidence, and witness tampering. Whether FLA. will do anything about him is a different story. Aside from the state, can’t GZ sue him for defamation? He certainly has all the videotaped pressers with Crumps lies for proof, especially Crump accusing him of racism which the FBI disproved.
Here is another thought. What happens if miraculously DD becomes to ill to participate in the case at all? That gives literally everyone an out from being the one to exonerate GZ. The BGI will riot no matter what happens, even if it isn’t because of this case. They seem to be moving in that direction anyway with a little help from their friends.
Assuming that the DeeDee depo is completed, I suspect her part may be completely over in this case. Why would we ever see or hear from her again? She cannot help the State in any way, and without her, they have no case.
She is the key to a solution for this to end without pissing off the BGI.
I agree. DD is the out for the state. I doubt anything will ever satisfy the BGI unless the state decides to end the Crump saga by just giving him millions as they did with the state juvinile detention center beating case via Charlie Crisp. Then Crump will tell all his peeps to calm down, as he and Tracy and Sybrina got their reparations.
Painful to even think about it
Those blasted attorneys. They ALWAYS have a theory
Wouldn’t it have been helpful if March 19th and April 2nd interviews were video-taped? Takes all the speculations away about who showed up for the interview.
If the Truth was the goal, then it would not make a difference. In this case it seems more an attempt to hide the truth that has guided this case. Everything the prosecutor has done seem targeted towards that.
Only when this is over will we ever know what the State did or did not do.
I totally agree.
trying to picture DD reading and correcting a transcript is a bit of a stretch for me. AND I SURE AS HECK would hope if they do have to do that, which now it seems they have to if it wasn’t video taped, that BDLR is not sitting next to her pointing out what needs to be corrected. (big sigh … o m g )
p.s. Has anyone spotted the name of the Attorney for W8? Looking at the Motion, I don’t see that it was served on anyone except BDLR and West.
I did not see anyone listed either, but as the transcript what a nightmare that would be, plus BDLR could always say no that is not what she meant or said.
See my post to Nettles.
If Mr. Crump is still opposing sitting for a deposition with the defense (they are such nice guys, why wouldn’t he want to spend time with them), why was the hearing on April 2nd cancelled. Isn’t time a factor here? I can’t figure this one out. Help me.
The only only thing I can figure is that they agreed to cancel the 4/2 hearing so Bernie would have time to prepare an adequate rebuttal to yesterday’s motion in EXCHANGE for an agreement that Bernie would not fight a motion to continue? But, IANAL
I think I found the answer. In the updated article Rene reports the Judge cancelled the hearing!
“Also Tueday, the judge canceled a routine April 2 hearing in the case. It was not immediately clear why. The next one is set for April 30.”
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-defense-witness-list-20130326,0,6953235.story
I see that now. Thanx.
See my longer comment above. But if it indeed was the judge who cancelled, I think my comment is even more likely to be right. She has now been FORMALLY notified that the Defense has accused the State of violations. So she is now backed into a corner. She MUST schedule a Richardson hearing. And the reason she’d not in any hurry is because she knows that will also almost certainly mean she has to grant a continuance. My opinion: We will NOT be seeing a trial in June.
I share that opinion. This will implode before then.
See my comment to ya prior. ROFLMBO I bet that is one judge who was thankful she had a Vacation Day planned over month prior 😉
😉 No doubt. But remember, she could always just do like she did in that other hearing a couple months ago. She was given a tough question, whereupon she says “Wait here, I gotta go back in my office and think about this”…. and then two hours later the clerk comes in and announces that the judge has gone home. Seriously, when that happened, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
I had asked above how long the state has to respond to the defense motion for sanctions. From the discovery rules, the state must answer to the allegations made by the defense motion. They must have a good reason for not providing the information to the defense for several months, which surely has harmed the trial strategy for the defense. DD, in the short time she was audiotaped in the deposition, already provided the proof the defense needed to prove the manipulation of the discovery by the state. I doubt they can come up with good enough, and valid reasons for the long delays by next Tues. so they cancelled April 2, and moved the hearing to late month. It’s also possible that the defense is waiting for a decision by the court on videotaping the continued deposition, no?
I’m also trying to figure out why some think a videotaped deposition would be more readily available or quicker than an audiotaped deposition. IMO Bernie doesn’t want her videotaped because then people would be able to read her body language, and possibly be able detect lying. If a videotaping is played to a jury at trial, that is much more powerful than listening to an audiotape. That is if a trial ever happens.
With a regular deposition, it has to be transcribed and presented to the witness for review, correction, signature. The transcript might never be prepared. A video deposition recording is immediately available and likely to end up on youtube.
BDLR knows this, I think that if DD is identified that she will be recognized, and more questions will arise.
Am I just confused here? I swore that someone, Tracy perhaps, stated that DeeDee didn’t know that she was the last person who spoke to Trademark until Tracy contacted her on Mar 18 2012.
But in the Defense’s deposition, she stated that she came to this realization the day of Trademark’s wake, Mar 2 2012.
Ack, I mean Defense’s MOTION, page 2.
And did she actually attend the wake? We know she skipped the funeral due to her ::cough:: hospitalization. But did she go to the wake? Is that where Jahvaris and/or Ronquavis said they met her for the first time?
She skipped the wake but attended the funeral. Apparently she was faux-hospitalized the evening of the wake into the morning of the funeral. And that’s where Ronquavis met her.
According to the motion filed by the defense yesterday, she didn’t attend the wake or the funeral. See page 1, section #3. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/mot_for_sanctions_discovery.pdf
So who did Ronquavis meet at a formal meeting at the funeral?
Hahahahahahaha. I just have to laugh at all of this! It’s absurd! Isn’t is usually the case that the defense has the ridiculous stories, contradictions, and holes?
tara: Are you a member at Random Topics?
I did sign up and I read some posts but I haven’t yet contributed.
OK. Look for a PM in the next day or two.
Thank you (Nettles18). That’s my question. Actually, my bigger question is, how many freaking people rep’ing Saint Skittles have thrown this, that and the other fabrication around, apparently rarely checking with each other, or expecting anyone to fact check?
It was supposed to be a slam dunk. It was supposed to be a quick overwhelming force of media propaganda demonizing, the awesome power of the state of Florida, incompetent and pliant defense attorneys, a guilty plea for something, anything including illegally discharging a firearm in the city limits, a corrupt and criminal police department who were shut up by their terrorized city officials, and fat juicy settlements from any entity remotely connected including holster manufacturers, and then all of the hysterical, conflicting, looney statements by one and all would just go away like they had never been uttered. It was supposed to be easy money but the “white Hispanic” said no. I admire GZ more every day for standing up to this onslaught.
” I admire GZ more every day for standing up to this onslaught.” +1,000,000!!
Ditto!!
To add further confusion, she told Mr. Crump she learned the next day that Trayvon died and she thought it was a fight. Why didn’t it sink in then?
So she learned on Feb 27 that Trademark had died, and she determined on Mar 2 that she was the last person who had spoken with him? I wonder how she figured that out.
I wonder too.
Oh good lord, that dumb Radar Online article quotes “a source close to the situation” as saying “The day after his wake, Trayvon’s family attorney, Benjamin Crump, who had been conducting his own extensive investigation because cops had determined the shooting was in self defense, told Trayvon’s girlfriend she was the last person to talk to him,”
I realize this is just an error-filled article, but this is similar to the info I’m remembering (possibly incorrectly), except it wasn’t the day after the wake, it was the day, or the day after, Tracy “discovered” DeeDee via the phone records. I’ll keep hunting.
More hilarity, Daryl Parks told Nancy Grace She in fact had to go to the hospital immediately after his death because it was such a traumatic event for her. I don’t know what “immediately after” means to Parks, but to me it would mean that day or the next day, not 3 or 4 days later. 🙂
IMO ONLY…Radar Online is a step up from the Nat’l Enquirer. Actually, NE has broken major news stories…so make that a step behind the NE. I have never trusted them or their “sources.”
Wasn’t there a twitter about the fight that TM was involved in on the 27th? Maybe Stephen? Sorry trying to work from memory and I don’t have a screen shot to go with that.
That sounds like daishe briannes tweet…even if not her same time to find out as ither friends. I am curious if it was daishe used to in l vent dee dee as her first name was i adore dee or something like that. Tcth talked about her last year but she wasnt 18 i thought. Odd…but it is still worth asking how a girl is scared for him, talkjng to him and just like chad – magically oblivious. I think there is misdirection. Meaning the entire set of events and that is the reason this set of odd inconsistincies exist. This story never happened. He did not plan to go home yet without brandi or his dad there. I just feel they are hiding something.
It’s hard to even imagine what the real story could be, because it’s such a mess! I am still believing that there are two DeeDees, the first was 16 and she backed out, and the second was 18. And I think Bernie knows about the switch, but since he doesn’t want his house burned down by an angry mob of BGI-driven protesters, he’s carrying on with the charade.
I agree. His actions about video-taping the witness strengthens my belief there were 2 different girls.
“she thought it was a fight”. Another great line of questioning. Did she not tell anyone because he started it.
Hmmm. How would DeeDee have known on Mar 2 2012 that she was the last person to talk to Trademark. She would have known the time of her last phone call with him, and I guess she might have heard or read a news report which stated the exact time of the shooting. Unlikely in those first several days, but possible.
So when she attended the funeral on Mar 3, did she not tell Tracy and Sybrina about her revelation? She waited for Tracy to call her on Mar 18? And then what did DeeDee say? “Yah, I know”??
I have a feeling the Defense has a lot of really great info that wasn’t included in the motion because it wasn’t relevant to the motion, but it will be very relevant during a trial.
+1
+1000
Wasn’t there also a story from Nat Jac that DD was found by Crump’s investigators?
Wasn’t there also a story from Nat Jac that DD was found by Crump’s investigators?
There several versions of when and how she was found. I don’t think the truth has been revealed yet.
Remember also that DeeDee said she had known Trayvon since kindergarten.
Natalie Jackson admitting a private investigator found the phone records for Trayvon. 24:25 mark
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/30/trayvon_martin_family_attorney_on_mounting#transcript
NatJack’s PI — admission, or just another lie?
On pg 4, the State’s Witness List shows private investigator. So who lied to them if Tracy, Sybrina or Crump made that first contact? I am actually thinking the PI may have actually been the one to find her and the Tracy Martin Phone Bill is just a tale to make Crump and Martin look better by using their collected noggins to solve the case…if that makes sense.
but but but Tracey found her first, or something. .. LOL. Didn’t he say he called her when saw the bill? Who knows and who cares any longer?
Sybrina said she had heard the young woman’s name starting in December 2011. Seems a little odd for someone that Trademark had known since kindergarten.
Crump was called about Trademark on Feb 28 and by Mar 1 he had accepted his position as Sybrina and Tracy’s attorney. Was he at the Mar 3 funeral?
Just a DUH! moment here. Just because she knew him since kindergarten, doesn’t mean SHE was in kindergarten. She could have been in 2nd grade. Litterally robbing the cradle. LOL
The number of unnecessary lies in this case is astonishing. Someone should make a list.
Unrelated, but…. I’ll never forget someone on CTH describing the Trademark family tree is being so complex Ancestry.com couldn’t handle it. Similarly, the lies (and lies.com?)
funny
I thought I saw TM’s stepmother listed for a deposition. Wouldn’t that be Alicia? I’m sure Alicia can reveal just how much contact Sybrina had with TM. Didn’t Alicia say that she raised TM from when he was a little boy, maybe about 4ish. DD said she knew TM since kindergarten. Who was he living with at that time Sybrina or Alicia?
You know, I am wondering what she and others on that list could say that would be allowed in court and how it would disprove the charges. Just a random thought.
I believe Sybrina at this point like I believe Crump.
I also doubted the early reports was that TM left at 8:30pm half-time of the NBA game.
From the OS: “Her deposition was scheduled for 9 a.m. March 13 at a state office in Miami, and the parties were in place, along with a camera and operator, according to new paperwork filed by defense attorney Mark O’Mara, but Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda said no to the video recording.”
Here’s what is missing: Her lawyer. Is she being represented by BLDR. If she had a lawyer, is his name, I. Potted Plant?
ROFL. Draper Ease.
Why was Bernie there? Is it normal for the lead prosecutors to be present at depositions?
I’ve been told that it is. He was at the deposition of the officers and detectives of the SPD, too.
And because Bernie conducted the interview of the state’s star witness, in the investigative stage of the case, Bernie made himself a witness, and available for deposition. I remember Don West saying they were not yet ready to depose Bernie, and that was a good while ago. That is a deposition that should be fascinating. Mr. DeLaRionda, when did DD tell you that she lied about going to the hospital? Did you have information on the star witness DD, from the FBI in particular, that would have listed her true age? Why did you conduct your interview of the star witness in the home of the victim’s mother, with the mother and other non-state representatives present? What was the purpose of your meeting with the witness in August? You told the defense that you had turned over all of the information you had from the FDLE investigation, yet on inspection of the records from the defense, we learned of additional information that was not turned over to us by you. What was the purpose of withholding that info.?
We would all love that but I cannot see him ever being deposed but they are good questions.
tara – it is customary for the Defense Attorneys to attend the State Depositions and for the State to attend the Defense depositions. We saw this in Casey Anthony’s case, they ALL attended all the depositions.
John Morgan representing Zenadia Gonzales did a deposition on Cindy Anthony and recorded it and THEN RELEASED it to the media. Cindy Anthony brought her own video camera to record the deposition. CA acted like an idiot, smirking, smacking gum, threatening John Morgan at one point, the videoed depositions tell a lot about the mannerisms of people.
I still can’t believe she got away with the chlorophyll BS. But now that I think about it, she has to deal with her daughter, and the knowledge of what really happened.
I checked the deposition notices, with the exception of DD all had a courtesy copy to Crump, I would have expected the same for DD, none was listed.
Great point!
Nettes,
Have the prosecution released their witness list, it would be interesting if DD is still listed as a witness for the prosecution. I know that MOM released theirs, but don’t know about BDLR.
Yes, about a half hour ago.
Click to access witness_list.pdf
Isn’t that the Defense list of witnesses, I was wondering about the prosecution’s list.
You will find them sprinkled throughout the supplemental discovery. Diwataman gave a nice recap here: https://diwataman.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/witness-list-civilians/
Thanks, I was hoping the prosecution had released their own list by category.
You have to piece it all together but in each supplemental below they did list by category, those not listed has no witnesses identified in them:
Original Discovery list
Click to access CJC3rdFlCScan20120515084012.pdf
2nd
Click to access redacted%20second%20discovery.pdf
5th (naming 6 “outed witnesses)
Click to access State’s%205th%20Supplemental%20Discovery%207%2025%2012.pdf
7th: http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/State's%207th%20Supplemental%20Discovery.pdf
8th:
Click to access State’s%208th%20Supplemental%20Discovery.pdf
9th:
Click to access states_9th_supplemental_discovery_redacted_by_defense.pdf
12th:
Click to access 12_discovery_exhibit.pdf
Nettles you tweet Rene Stuzman, don’t you? I was wondering if you could ask her how she knows the April 2 hearing was cancelled by the Judge.
Sure.
Thanks
https://twitter.com/Nettles18/status/316739150227312640
Beautiful, you are great!
Thank you kind sir. So are you!
What is significant about the notice of DeeDee’s depo is not that Crump is missing. If she had an attorney, would he/she receive a copy? They could have simply redacted his/her name if there was a privacy issue.
It only shows lack of “respect” LOL.
Verify tough following 4 forums tonight. I respond as I receive comments so they are out of order .
Would that be because Crump, or someone in his firm, is actually representing the other witnesses such as Sybrina, Tracy, Rhonquvis (sp) and any other family members? Crump had said that he was not representing DD in his interview with her. It appears that DD may not have a lawyer. She possibly can’t afford one.
She may not, they just threw out to the wind. They may also want to distance themselves as she can incriminate them and has.
I love your spelling of Ronquavis. 🙂 This is what they get for using creative names.
Agreed. They often don’t need a last name to know who they are.
I’m probably spelling it wrong too! Haha
The notice of depo does not show an attorney for her.
I find it funny that they ‘disrespected” him but a courtesy copy does not mean much except for showing respect.
Here is the Defense’s Witness List:
http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/128-defendant-s-supplemental-witness-list-redacted
State witheld info from George and Shellies’ phones http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/discovery_demand_326.pdf
Holy cow. Is this a comedy of errors or what?
Not sure if means the state “withheld” evidence, as much as it means that MO’M is trying to figure out if the DID withhold it.
There is a deadline the State is under now for turning over discovery right? According to this scheduling order all motions have to be filed before May 10th so motions for discovery shall be ended. Right? http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Amended%20Scheduling%20Order.pdf
I do believe you are right. That was why I was asking if the prosecution had turn over a final witness list, it would give us an idea if anything else is missing from discovery.
Why would they be asking for it in native file format? Do they think people have been falsifying documents?
I’m not sure that’s the case but in the native file format you can be certain they have not been messed with in any way.
I always thought that Crump’s interview of DeeDee wasn’t technically an affidavit, but several media reports refer to the interview as exactly that. Here’s one:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57400851-504083/trayvon-martin-victim-of-fatal-shooting-told-girlfriend-i-think-this-dude-is-following-me-attorney-says/
An attorney for Trayvon Martin’s family played what he said was a recorded affidavit from Martin’s girlfriend
I’m hunting for Crump’s own statements employing the term. Maybe it doesn’t exist?
Not Crump’s words, but lots of references to “sworn affidavit” here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html
A little odd for an interview during which Crump didn’t even know DeeDee’s last name.
More references here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.04.html
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It’s extremely significant, Ashleigh. And this morning, I spoke at length to one of the Martin family attorneys during which time she told me about the existence of this affidavit, this taped affidavit. And what she told me was that the girl, the young girl and Trayvon Martin had been on the phone for most of the day.
Nasty Jackson called it an affidavit?
way too funny.
Off my own topic, just found another Matt Gutman libelous statement: At some point, Zimmerman ignored the suggestion from a 911 dispatcher that he stop following Martin, left his truck and went to look for Martin.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674
This makes it sound like George was in the truck when the NEN dispatcher told him it wasn’t necessary to follow. But George was already well out of his truck and at the T in the sidewalk when she issued the advice.
He issued the advice. Here is a write-up on the civilian who took George’s Non-Emergency call that night….Sean Noffke.
http://psc.apcointl.org/2012/06/14/telecommunicator-spotlight-sean-noffke-ready-for-anything
If folks want to exact, Sean works as a call taker not a dispatcher, two different tasks in communications center duties.
Just in case Sean reads this. She’s a he.
What? Are you telling me that the voice on the NEN tape is a male? Oops. I need to listen to it again. HE. He.
ROFLMAO!
This might be old news, but it’s a link to the actual witness list filed by the defense:
Click to access witness_list.pdf
And a new demand for specific discovery regarding any information regarding any phones connected to George or Shellie:
Click to access discovery_demand_326.pdf
Happy 1 Year Birthday to Rumpole’s site. I will endeavor to learn how to post on your site. I’m having trouble but I’m sure before this case is over I’ll figure it out. Once again, Happy Birthday to your Random Thoughts home. May this coming year be even better for you than the last!
+1000
I ditto that.
Mike McDaniel of the Stately Manor has posted update #24.
Thank you. . I accidentally called you a judge today.. so I am sorry .
Nelson, Nettles….it’s close!
Have you received notifications in email today that did not identify the people who made the post?
I don’t get email notifications.
I cannot imagine how you keep up
I’ve been getting those for a few days at least. I stopped the email notifications on any newer articles. My box was loading up with more emails than I wanted to read. I really have no interest in what Sling Bucket has to say.
Thank for heads up. Great article as always.
Robert Jr. will be on Piers Morgan tonight defending his tweets on the images he posted of Trayvon and another young man acccused of killing a baby.
Here is an article of Robert explaining himself to CBS. I learned Robert is a Classical Singer. Has anyone heard any of his music?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57576548-504083/trayvon-martin-case-robert-zimmerman-jr-says-tweeted-image-meant-to-show-trayvon-martin-2.0/
Classical singer? Wow, never would have thunk it, lol. Let’s hear some Robert!
I disagree with the apology but Robert show also reveal Crump’s tweet showing Trayvon next to Emmett Till. Was that a fair comparison?
I think Robert strategy using Twitter will get him more air time exposing the MSM and how gullible some many are when racial politics are involved. Robert is one courageous and talented person, also kind, he makes a point of it.
There’s a rumor that today is Robert’s Birthday. He did tweet he would turn 32 in March. Poor kid, what a wall of hate coming at him. I hope this coming year becomes one of his best years ever!
Defense responds to Mr Blackwell’s response to motion to reconsider the deposition of Ben Crump:
Click to access defendant_rep.pdf
I think some of you have seen this over a treehouse, but thought I would post here too … just in case:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/27/george-zimmerman-lawyer-calls-brother-s-racist-tirade-inappropriate.html
Robert, if you are reading, I want to congratulate you for having the b*lls to post that tweet!!!! Seriously. I sent another donation to George’s legal defense fund, and it won’t be my last.
And I appreciate O’Mara’s response too. He’s trying to get his client acquitted, and he’s right that the tweets do divert attention… but only because the media are always looking for the most salacious stories instead of the stories with substance. O’Mara and West’s latest motion should have been big news, because the Persecution’s **star witness** admitted she lied and admitted that Sybrina pressured her. But noooooo, the media wants a scandal! So they report on Robert’s tweets. I guess Kim Kardashian hasn’t gotten any larger in the last 5 minutes, when they last updated us about her weight.
The defense should have had a PR specialist long ago to counteract Julison’s narrative. Robert is playing catch up.
You are so right.
Robert’s voice is getting stronger. He is up over 500 new followers. This interview with Brooke and Sonny on CNN blew me away. Sonny realizes there is another side to the Trayvon Martin story. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/27/cnn-on-zimmerman-brothers-racist-rant-two-sides-to-every-story/
Robert is changing hearts and minds.
Sonny has softened a bit here. She would be a good one to approach on some of these other issues.
She was lied to by Natalie Jackson. that may have something to do with it. After talking with Natalie, Sonny went on air ahead of Crump’s March 20th Presser and said she learned about the sworn affidavit. Turns out there wasn’t one. Crump didn’t even get the witness’s last name or address.
I am impressed.. excellent. Maybe she will open the door for others to come clean and report the truth.
Check out Rene’s Headline in this Piece “Crump, Judge don’t make me answer questions from Zimmerman’s lawyers” – also note her description of the teen who died that night. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-zimmerman-crump-depo-20130327,0,5147520.story
Rene likely did not write the headline.
Sonny on CNN and now this …… HA! Slowly but surely the media might be getting it .
I see you and Michael commenting there. I just added my own this AM. I added to Michael’s courtroom exchange with Sean. This time MOM asking questions.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-zimmerman-crump-depo-20130327,0,5147520.story#tugs_story_display
Robert’s heart is totally in the right place. He was a bit injudicious in how chose to make his point. He realizes it. He apologized. He is a stand up guy.
I would expect him to do a good job on Piers tonite.
Good job by Robert.
Piers helped him out by being so obnoxious.
As my friend on facebook said, twitter gives you 140 characters to express yourself. Piers gives you even less. 🙂
Morgan is always rude but I have never seen interrupt any guest like he did tonight. George NEVER had a chance to address any of the issues without interruption. This may be a new LOW for him.
What is 18 in your name?
Day of birth. I was born on Dec. 18th and when signing up for things Nettles was taken so I made it Nettles18 and that seems to work.
got it
Looks like I picked a bad week to be out of pocket! Lots to catch up on…
If I have posted this here and forgotten, my apologies. For those who missed the interview with Robert Jr. and Piers Morgan, this site posted the interview. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-morgan-confronts-robert-zimmerman-jr-over-controversial-tweets-in-heated-interview/
I watched in on TV.. It was very difficult to follow and I missed a lot due to Morgan’s constant interruptions. Impossible to hear every spoken word. I wonder how it would read if there was a transcript.
That would be interesting.
I just watched the Piers Morgan RANT. (Thanx for the link, nettles). It can’t be called an interview because Morgan was totally obnoxious and would not shut up long enough to allow his “guest” to express a complete thought. RZ Jr. is a class act and showed extreme patience, otherwise he would just walked out.