Clubhouse Video and Discussion

I started all the videos at 6:48:10, 6:30:10 in the original timestamps accounting for the 18 minute discrepancy. I added George’s call, part of W11’s call and W18’s call with some radio transmissions edited in and a few descriptions from the Event Report. The last little bit of radio transmission after request to transport George is not timed correctly as it’s from the edited version so pay no mind there, I just let it run a bit to fill the end.

As far as I can tell the 18 minute discrepancy/adjustment is accurate.

Edit: Now I am rethinking this it seems the main contention is what W3 sees that she says in her 911 call and where she sees it. I think what is being claimed is that the vehicle at 31:00 is Smiths car driving down Twin Trees and that is what W3 is supposed to be seeing.

7:16:41 W3 Calls
7:16:56 Gunshot
7:17:46 I see a policeman now

Listening to her interview she says had her upstairs windows open, was in one of her offices and heard someone screaming for help. She peeked out the window, saw someone on top of someone, called 911 but was concerned she would be heard so she went into the other office to talk to 911. She said she stayed in her office the entire time of the 911 call. She said she can look out the window upstairs and see police arrive and that once they were there she peeked out the blinds again. She said she stayed in the other rooms until the police were there.

Unfortunately she doesn’t describe where she sees the police arriving or what she’s exactly seeing. I think we can all agree she’s looking out her window that faces West but it’s not certain what she can see from there. Can she see the front gate? Can she see Retreat View Circle or at least parts of it through the spaces in the buildings? The question seems to come down to did she see a police car drive through the front gate, make a left and go down Retreat View Circle? Or did she see a police car arrive through the front gate, go straight past the clubhouse, and make the natural left that goes down Twin Trees? Did she see the actual police car though? We don’t know because she never explicitly states what she sees other than their arrival. Perhaps she looked out the window and merely saw police lights flashing off buildings, windows and cars and since she was looking out her front window assumed the police were in front and that is why she was telling the dispatcher that it’s not in front but in back.

Smith’s report is not much help either. All he basically says in his report is that he arrived at 2821 Retreat View Circle, canvassed the area, walked between the buildings and found George. From the report we don’t know for sure what entrance he came in or what street(s) he took when he entered. We also don’t know what buildings he walked in between.


However in his dispatch he tells Raimondo(SO202 Car Radio) across from Bentley Elementary, which is across the street from the North entrance and to turn left when he comes in. But Raimondo did ask at one point where Smith’s car is which would have been on RVC at that point.

Ayala(S1312 Car Radio) was the third to arrive.

Going off of the Event Report it says that S2711(I believe Smith’s car radio ID) ARV(Arrived) at 7:17:40. That would be consistent in timing with W3’s time on her Event Report; 7:16:41 W3 Calls, 7:17:46 I see a policeman now.


If I place her call on my video starting it at her Event Report time, she makes her remark at 29:36.

I tried to get at least some idea of what W3 could see from her view but it’s really a futile effort without actually being in the same room. I’m wondering if she can see the front gate from her window but even if not it at least seems likely she can see through the breaks in the buildings, both of these give her a potential view of Retreat View Circle where she may have seen police arrive.


If we are to say the vehicle at 31:00 of my video is Smiths patrol car then where ought we place W3’s statement?

I decided to place her statement about police at 31:06 of the video. That would mean her call came in at 30:01(7:18:11 of my video). 7:18:11 – 7:16:41 = 1 minute and 30 seconds. So if this were the case then the 18 minute discrepancy is actually 16 minutes and 30 seconds, give or take a few seconds depending on where one places her statement. So 6:30 on the original timestamp would mean an adjusted timestamp starting at 6:46:30 or so. This would also mean the supposed George truck is at around 7:07:20.

21:24 (7:09:34) George’s Call
28:01 (7:16:11) W11’s Call
28:55 (7:17:06) W18’s Call
31:25 (7:19:36) W18 Saying she hears George say he shot the person, this is George telling Smith that.
34:45 (7:22:56) GSW Is unresponsive
41:32 (7:29:43) Asks for how much time CPR has transpired
42:18 (7:30:29) Confirmed Signal 07

23:30 7:11:40 George says “Shit, he’s running”
7:11:59 (Event Report) Subj now running towards back entrance of complex
7:16:41 (ER#1671) Witness 3 911 Call
29:36 (7:17:46) W3 says “I see a police right now”
29:36 (7:17:46) W18 says “oh my god I see the person right now. I see him like walking.”
29:42 (7:17:52) W18 says “There’s a man coming out, there’s people coming out with flashlights.”
29:49 (7:17:59) W18 says “There’s a man walking out with a flashlight right now.”
30:01 (7:18:11) W18 says “The man is up right now. Someone’s coming over.”
30:09 (7:18:19) W5 says “Now there’s people coming with flashlights.”
7:19:43 (Event Report) 1 At Gunpoint
7:19:51 W3 Says “And the guy, the guy on top had a white T-Shirt.”
7:20:06 Dispatcher says “Do you see what kind of pants?”
7:20:08 W3 says “No”
7:20:20 (Event Report) Complainant ADVD “Said guy was on top wearing a whitshirt/unknown pants”
7:21:18 (Event Report) 1 Secure & 1 Down w/GSW
34:45 (7:23:01) (Event Report) GSW is unresponsive
35:35 (7:23:52) (Event Report/Radio Transmission) Chest wound/Unresp male/Starting CPR Per SO2023
42:18 (7:30:34) (Event Report/Radio Transmission) Confirmed Signal 07
7:31:00 Metadata George photo in police car

Discuss at TalkLeft,2293.0.html


Game Room


East Pool Hall

East Pool
Photobucket Photobucket

It appears to me the vehicle at 7:08 is pulling away from the front of the clubhouse.



From the “Taking the Taaffe Tour at Twin Lakes” video it appears the last light is a reflection off the picture frame but they look to have been moved down a bit between videos.


The only vehicle that illuminates all of these items is the one at 7:08 that appears to be pulling away from the clubhouse.

Here are what appears to be nine other vehicles traveling in the same direction that do not illuminate those items:

Nor do any of those other vehicles shine their headlights so brightly in the big window of the Kitchen video as we see from the 7:08 vehicle

Here are just some clips of the 7:08 vehicle:



2 thoughts on “Clubhouse Video and Discussion

  1. Hi Diwatan,

    Nice seeing you, I mean especially you, following up on the deep analysis Amsterdam, Whonoze & I made of the clubhouse cctv.

    I’m happy reading from you the reasoning we had that lead to the conclusion that the cctv is ~16:30 late rather than 18:00 as officially stated. Indeed, you wrote:
    “I decided to place her statement about police at 31:06 of the video. That would mean her call came in at 30:01(7:18:11 of my video). 7:18:11 – 7:16:41 = 1 minute and 30 seconds. So if this were the case then the 18 minute discrepancy is actually 16 minutes and 30 seconds, give or take a few seconds depending on where one places her statement.”

    You’re the only GZ supporter I know that has been in the details of the video, and I really appreciate that you spent the time analyzing it logically. We’re not going to close the wide gap between our views of the case but I can help closing some of it concerning what the cctv shows.

    You clearly understood that W3 living inn 1231 TTL is key to timing the videos. When I worked on this issue, her seeing police while being with 911 dispatcher came as a huge landmark. She states that at 7:17:41 which is the also the time the 1st ofc on the scene, Ofc T. Smith, marks his ARV while responding to her call. I see no other possibility but her seeing him.

    You wondered, rightfully, how she could see him. However, you seemed to be loosing the fact that she moved from the back room where she heard and saw part of the scuffle, to the front room where she saw police arriving. Check the her interview with Bachelor. There, she states:
    “My windows were open. So, my initial reaction was to close them but I didn’t want to create attention to myself. So, I went into the other office to talk, so no one could hear me or anything. So, I called the lady. And she was just trying to calm me down or whatever… ”

    You then tackle what she could view from her townhouse. I did that too. Check that figure made: It shows that she could see 100% of the part of TTL between her place and the clubhouse. Beyond the highlighted area, we cannot state with certainty what she could see.

    You’re right that because she never explicitly described what she saw we have to deduce it from whatever source we get. The obvious other source is Ofc T. Smith himself. He too did not describe his route through RATL either. However, we got from him the log of his dispatch history ( T. Smith responds to GZ’s NEN call at 7:13:27. He close that one with a ARV at 7:17:11 and then follows with W3 call logging a DIS at 7:17:36 immediately followed by a ARV at 7:17:40. We also know from his report that after responding to W3 he responded to W19 (2821 RVC). I believe we also have the patrol tape where we can hear him discussing that switch of address with dispatch. The interesting thing though is that W19 911 connection is made at 7:18:00. So, until that time, Ofc T. Smith had no other addresses to go beside 1111 RVC & 1231 TTL.
    I cannot rule out the possibility that he decided to roam around the complex rather than going to W3’s, but it looks very unlikely. Adding to this that 1) W3 could see him right at the time Ofc. T. Smith logged his ARV in the log corresponding to her call & that 2) her view range from her bedroom window is basically TTL, then the obvious conclusion is that Ofc. T. Smith went straight to 1231 TTL.

    The last step is identifying the light event corresponding to Ofc. T. Smith which you did. There is not many vehicle running south on TTL caught by the clubhouse cctv ( One has to be T. Smith.
    Assuming that the official timing of the videos is right (starts @ 6:48pm), we can’t get that vehicle. Instead, we get 2 cars coming in through the north gate and turning right on RVC in the opposite direction to W3 and the crime scene.
    There is just one vehicle that could be Ofc. T. Smith’s if he went via TTL as we concluded above. It is seen on the GR (30:54) then EPH (31:06) & then EP (31:10) videos. That vehicle comes from the gate, proceeds south on TTL as explained by GZ in his NEN call, as it passes in the frame of the EPH camera, it shines a red light, as it proceeds south and the east on TTL, its headlights, taillights and the shadow of its frame are visible on the EP video.
    There is no other vehicle going that way in a within a reasonable timing. The previous one is seen on TTL 9min earlier and the next one is seen on TTL 6 minutes later.
    Therefore, the cctv vids started at about 6:46:30 give or take 10sec.

    This time (6:46:30) is magic as it allows matching with multiple other events.
    We get the 2 first EMT vehicles at the gate soon enough to be on scene on time while using the official time means that EMT logged its ON SCENE before even passing the gate.
    Using 6:46:30, the video ends soon before the time we expect the 3rd EMT vehicle to show up, while with the official time of 6:48 we should see it in the last minute.
    We can also ID two vehicles (GR @ 33:13 & 34:02) entering the north gate, not going straight on TTL, not going west on RVC, so necessarily going east on RVC on time to be Ofc. Ayala then Raimondo. The next similar event will be from 5 vehicles 3-4 minutes later.
    Finally, the cherry on the cake is when using 6:46:30 we get W18 telling 911 dispatcher that she can hear sirens right as the 1st EMT vehicle passes the north gate.

    • DWM,
      I know it does not matter much to the case, but now that we know that the route T. Smith took goes through TTL as expected do we agree that the CCTV was late by 16min & 30sec?

      If yes, do you still keep your views that the vehicle on RVC at 20:45 in the Kitchen video is GZ pulling out of the clubhouse?
      I mean, if it is then he pulled out at ~7:07:15, about 2min & 20sec before connecting with NEN, and between 45sec to 1min & 44sec before calling NEN per GZ’s phone records.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s