The GZ Open Thread (2)

George Zimmerman Case

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95 thoughts on “The GZ Open Thread (2)

    • Scientists Uncover Invisible Motion in Video:

      Article: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/scientists-uncover-invisible-motion-in-video/?smid=tw-nytimesbits&seid=auto&_r=0

      “The team posted the code online and made it available to anyone who wanted to download it and run the program. But to do so required some technical expertise because the interface was not simple to use. Last week, Quanta Research Cambridge, a Taiwan-based manufacturer of laptop computers that helped finance the project, provided a way for people to upload video clips to their Web site and to see a video that is run through the program.”

      http://videoscope.qrclab.com/


      .
      .

      • We should be able to run an analysis of Jeantel, Fulton, Martin, and other liars, on how quickly their heart was beating or what was going on in their bodies as they testified, using the Quanta Research website. I also wonder how fast George’s heart was beating when the verdict was being read.

        http://videoscope.qrclab.com/

    • Hi D-Man,

      I am closing my blog completely, I am making it gone with all the threads. Nothing to do with any other blogs. I know this will be highly unusual and disappointing.

      But I’ve had a realization, an awareness that I have put out of my mind for the greater good.

      But I can’t deny the truth any more: most heroes are not what we think them to be at all.

      I can understand such men’s purposes or intentions behind their wrong actions, but I cannot continue to call them heroes. Basically, I cannot support my own views which I have held for so long, when that reality does not exist.

      If you email me, I can answer any questions. I have learned a lot from you, D-Man, thank you

  1. I am posting this again since DWM locked the previous thread.
    I first put this post on TLForums and a couple of other places I frequent, yesterday. So far nobody has pointed out errors so I am placing it here. The idea is to explain as simply and accurately as possible, exactly what the prosecution must do to get a conviction for at least manslaughter. I think it important that the defense, in order that the prosecution not flood the jurors’ minds with irrelevancies, keep bringing up exactly what the prosecution’s burden is.

    *******************

    Here is an attempt to distill down from the redundancies and inapplicable portions of FL 776, exactly what the prosecution must do to get a conviction for at least manslaughter, in other words, defeat Zimmerman’s self defense claim. Unless they have a plausible case here, I don’t think it is worth getting into what in addition must be proven to get a Murder2 conviction.

    At least one of the following must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt:

    1. Zimmerman was committing a forcible felony at the start of the physical conflict with Martin. For example, trying to forcibly detain him.
    2. Zimmerman did not have a reasonable fear of great bodily harm at the time he shot Martin.
    3. Both a) and b) below must be proven BRD.
    a) Zimmerman was the initial provoker of the conflict with Martin.Zimmerman was the initial provoker of Martin using physical force against him.
    b) Zimmerman could have safely withdrawn from the fight but chose not to do so.

    My impression is that the defense can refute any evidence the prosecution has for 1, 2. or 3 without calling Zimmerman to the stand, unless the prosecution has dynamite GPS evidence to establish 1. Under Florida law, can O’Mara read such a list as above to the jury in his opening statement?

    *********************************

    Some further remarks coming from the discussions I had about this yesterday. The prosecution will have to add an additional charge before or during during the trial if they plan to try to establish 1. For 3.a) they can try to prove it using the arguments of Serino’s Capias: Zimmerman was provocative, with an implied threat, because he annoyed Martin by staring at him, following with his car, getting out of the car, failing to identify himself as NW when he and Martin met up and started to get something out of his pocket. For 3.b), they can claim that statements of Zimmerman and Osterman show that GZ had Martin’s hand or arm pinned while he had his gun out and could have forced Martin to back off. Also if they can get Dr. Reich’s testimony in they might be able to use Martin’s “begging” to try to establish 3.b) and perhaps 2.

    I think this makes it clear how hard a case the prosecution has, if they play fair.

    • Zimmerman was provocative, with an implied threat, because he annoyed Martin by staring at him

      Are you kidding me? Staring? Holy crap.

    • Maybe I’m wrong, but here’s my take ….

      The Persecution already knows that the Defense is going to claim standard self-defense so they’re going to have to refute that first before they can address murder or some lesser felony.

      We know the Defense is going to invoke 776.012. There is too much evidence for the Persecution to refute 776.012, so they’ll have to refute 776.041, i.e., they’ll have to convince the jurors that George was the initial aggressor AND he was able to retreat. Good luck to them on that!

      They need W8 to establish that George was the initial aggressor. Just getting out of his truck or following Trademark after Trademark took off running isn’t sufficient. They need W8 to state how Trademark was afraid, was running, was being “pursued” by George. She can add the “crazy” sh*t too if she wants. But the Defense will force W8 to recount what she told Bernie, that it was Trademark who initiated the verbal confrontation, and that Trademark had been “right by” Brandy’s apartment but later he was back at the sidewalk T where he had already run past minutes earlier.

      If they can’t establish that George was the initial aggressor, they’ve lost the case. All of the rest doesn’t matter.

      • To repeat what I have said elsewhere, O’Mara should have kept asking the question, How does that show beyond a reasonable doubt it wasn’t self defense or should there be different standards depending of the races of the victim and defendant?. He should keep trying to focus the prosecution on their task and not get into irrelevant issues like, “Do you personally think Zimmerman is innocent?”. The prosecution’s only hope is to get enough side issues, like Zimmerman’s credibility, going so that the jury will convict Zimmerman because they don’t like him. Don’t rely on jury instructions to keep them focused. They often are written in gobbledygook.

        • If this case gets to trial everyone loses. It will be like a knock down drag out battle between The Statute of Liberty and Lady Justice with no blindfold. Let the Circus begin.

      • “Once the emotion runs out of me I will address this.”

        The Samurai warrior’s code of conduct!

  2. I have a forum with a ‘politics’ sub forum and, oy vey, all of the liberals say “Would Trayvon have died if George didn’t get out of his car”

    Ugh. Guess how that turned out for me.

    • It never ends. I say the only answer to that is f-off because it’s not a genuine question. If directly answered however I would say the answer is “I don’t know” for the simple fact of the matter is we would have no idea what Trayvon would have done next had George stayed in the truck. Perhaps Trayvon would have come back and confronted George while George was sitting in his truck then perhaps Trayvon would have assaulted George there ending potentially in the same manner it did.

        • No kidding. That’s why I can’t wait for the homeless video (if it appears). I figure it’s different than the one posted on the CTH thread a few days ago (I think it was the kit durant themed post).

          Not sure if you have seen it. It’s on liveleak and the ‘map’ shows it was near miami and it’ts kind of funny how it sounds like somebody says ‘trayvon’ in it. It’s not the real one, obviously, but it was kind of crazy to think something like that exists within the defense. Of cousre, Nelson will not allow it to be mentioned in place of the cartoon created by Global Grind which shows proof George failed to shoot him with his ak 47 from his car window first.

          • O’Mara has released a statement about the video, and explained that his description (in court) was wrong. It is not a video of Trayvon’s friends beating a homeless man. It is a video that TM took of two homeless men fighting.

            • Yep. Omara blows for that. Awful mistake. You can have video fo Trayvon wanting to strange George to death, taking him out of the car, and the way this country works this type of error will make it that much harder to pay attention to what a scam this whole thing is. Infuriating. Does he not vet these things or statements that he makes? A beyond pathetic mistake. Sometimes, less is more.

    • As ding said on the other thread, he was a ticking bomb, the cops would have been taking him down sooner or later. Trayvon didn’t care what happened to him, since no one seemed to care about him.

      • Odd how in this video, which is (according to the map near Maimi) has a tall skinny dude in a shirt almost the same color (with stripes) as Trayvon and in the first 10 seconds the kid sounds like he’s saying “Hey trayvon” and the guy in the middle perks up.

        This came from a poster in the CTH last week.

        http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=96a_1306660828

        The impact a video *ilke* this would have been huge. Instead…what a tease.

  3. IIRC, in one of the hearings, Bernie conceded that Trayvon attacked GZ. Does anyone recall which hearing that was?

    TIA

  4. I’m laughing at someone promoting Pro Publica over at the CTH of all places. Pro Publica is one of the many non profits set up and funded by George Soros to promote propaganda as “honest, clear eyed journalism.” Before it became Pro Publica, it was Res Publica run by a one term VA rep. who was so blatantly far left he was booted out of office after only two years in a pretty left leaning district. Once booted from office, he took off for Austraila to try to help to kill off any free speech there. Now Tom Periello heads up the publicity wing of Center for American Politics.

  5. Pingback: Trayvon Martin Cell Phone Video of Homeless People Bike Video | DiwataMan

  6. D-man, I left a link to hypergeometric probability calculator over at CTH. Not sure you’ll see it. hypergeometric probability calculator (fancy name for when you draw from a group without replacing the one you drew).

    100 marbles, 11 of them black. You draw 10. The probability that 3 or more of the 10 will be black is about 7.8%. The probability that EXACTLY 3 of the 10 will be black is about 6.6%.

    • Yes I saw that and left a comment to the same effect. I did it like this on that site:

      N = 100
      k = 11
      n = 10
      x = 3

      Hypergeometric Probability: P(X = 3) = 0.0656

      Nowhere near as high as I imagined, lol. Still though, a 6.6% chance I think could be said to be at least a possible indication of purposeful manipulation.

  7. DMan:
    Do you have a detailed analysis of the NEN call? If not, who has a good account of what was said?

    I lost some support from several friends who now believe that crap that George should have stayed in the car. I want to show them how George could easily have interpreted what Sean said to mean that Sean was telling him to keep visual contact with Trayvon.

    These are normally very sensible people…..conservatives.. so I am stunned that they did such a turnaround. They are gun owners with concealed carry permits and really believe that what George did could affect the current laws here in Florida.

    It is unbelievable how that single phrase “He should have stayed in his car” has taken root even among normal folks, many of whom had believed that George was 100 percent innocent.

    I bet Serino now wishes he should have never put into his report that this could have been prevented if George had remained in his vehicle. That really is as absurd as saying it could have been prevented if Martin had never gone to the store or if both of them had stayed in bed all day. It has no place in his report.

    Crump’s presser yesterday was more of the same old BS including saying tea instead of WMJ.
    It’s the first time I have ever seen him use notes so I guess his comments were carefully chosen to reinforce the lies so he INTENTIONALLY and with malice aforethought, continued to repeat lies that he KNOWS are lies.. Holy crap!! If that is not grounds for a later suit by George, then nothing is. Can anyone muzzle this lying POS?

    BTW, do you know if he has bodyguards?

    I will be grateful if you can help me so that I can straighten out some friends.

    • I don’t know if I have a transcription on here or not. I know I got one lying around somewhere, there are others online as well.

      Just tell them they are blaming the victim. Just because George watched Trayvon then walked from point A to point B doesn’t justify what Trayvon did to him, even if he went searching for him which there’s no evidence of anyway, it still doesn’t justify it.

      I don’t wish to muzzle Crump but it would be nice to see people stop giving him a platform and it would be nice to see the Florida Bar take action. Why would Crump need bodyguards?

      • It ain’t that simple but thanks. Most of these guys are well educated, very successful ultra conservative businessmen. I cannot figure out what happened but I am obligated to get this resolved.. They WILL ;listen to me but I need to explain how George could not have prevented this if he believed he was doing what Sean asked him .I am sure I have seen the transcript with an analysis but cannot fined it. Are you sure you do not have it?

        • Yes it really is that simple and if these “well educated” people can’t see it then they are not “well educated”.

          Can George see in the future? No, he can not, since he can not there was nothing to prevent, anyone saying otherwise is using the events that happened afterward to justify something that was supposed to be known in the past which was unknown, in other words hindsight is 20/20.

          Being well educated and successful does not mean one is smart and certainly being an ultra conservative businessman does not either.

          Saying the dispatcher made George feel he had to go out and look for Trayvon is like trying to place some blame on the dispatcher, it won’t work and is a silly non sensible approach. The only thing that makes sense is blaming the victim which is exactly what they are doing.

          You can not justify what Trayvon did to George, if you could there would be no argument from me. You can not justifiably assault someone for getting out of their truck. You can not blame someone for being assaulted for getting out of their truck. If your friends insist otherwise then the next time they get out of their car beat the shit out of them, maybe they’ll get the point.

          There are transcripts online. Why don’t you just play them the call or give them a link to the call, then beat the shit out of them when they get out of their car, lol.

          • I decided to use the entire NEN call as well s the transcript. I will use my own analysis, one in which I speak their lingo There is more to this than I can put in a post.

  8. I posted this at the cth. Does anyone know why the jurors are called in the order they are?
    Although I know how everyone feels about him, and I don’t care for him myself, leatherman has an interesting article up today about the importance of jurors numbers. It’s really worth a read. You probably don’t want to read the comments unless you want to get mad. It basically says that any unchallenged, inexcused jurors make it into the jury in the order that they are called. So even if the total number of juries reflects the demographics perfectly if more minorities are called in the beginning they have a better chance of making it onto the jury. The first 6 that are accepted make up the jury, and the next four will be the alternatives. We really need to find out why they numbered the jurors the way that they did. It may be very important. It will also be more difficult if there is a critical mass if minority jurors early on. It would be impossible to challenge them all without being questioned about their motivation. Since they can’t challenge a juror on the basis if race they have to come up with a different reason.

      • Thanks, Dman. I now see there is another link up above for “Thoughts on Jury Selection in the George Zimmerman Case”.

        But, since I’d already posted a Q, and received an A here, I’ll just finish up, and you can move it if you want.

        The reason I ask is because I ran across this video yesterday, and it intrigued me.

        So, I guess I’m wondering if indeed his point has merit in this crazy, upside-down case which seems to be, rather than about the law, instead all about emotion, race, parenting, life-style, and even sexism:

  9. An Original song……

    Georgie – Zimfan

    Georgie was protecting his own neighborhood
    Neighborhood watch he did the best that he could

    Trayvon was wondering around, acting just like he was stoned
    Georgie tried to keep him in sight, until he got punched in the nose
    Trayvon mounted Georgie and then, beat his head on the cement

    Trayvon wasn’t practicing no stand your ground
    Classic self defense is what the jury found

    Bashing the back of his head, and punching him right in the nose
    He screamed for someone to come help , Johnny then called 911
    When John left Georgie’s heart it just sank, He could have used some purple drank

    Georgie… I wish you were a neighbor of mine..
    Georgie… I wish you were a neighbor of mine..

  10. Shameless self promotion of my own Vid and another ORIGINAL song by “Zimfan”

    The Zimmerman Files (Do you really wanna know?)

    Zimmerman: These Shall Be (George’s lament) – Zimfan

    These Shall Be – Lyrics
    Trayvon is dead (background)
    And I don’t know if I can say I’m alive
    I can’t believe what went down that night
    What else was I supposed to do?
    You would have done the same had it happened to you.

    Just looking out for my neighborhood
    trying to do what a good citizen he should
    never expected him to show up next to me
    Now what else can I say but “these shall be.”

    He about had me down and out
    I didn’t know how much longer I could scream and shout
    I waited so long, couldn’t wait no more
    Wish I had never opened up that door

    Race pimps and haters spreading lies about my mind
    I hope a special hell awaits that vile kind
    I never expected them to weave their web on me
    Now what else can I say but “these shall be.”

    • Rumpole, DMan, someone, I need some technical assistance please.

      I have been keeping a daily commentary of the trial, but I wanted to have a time stamp for each comment. I created a blog the other day using the free word press adventure theme. I tried all different time zones but no time stamp shows on my comments. It also won’t allow me to add George or his parents website to my blog. HELP!

      • Since you are using the free version you are severely limited in what you can do. In order to get a time stamp on each individual comment you have to select a theme that offers that.

        • Thanks DMan. None of the widgets gives me the option of a hyperlink from the names. I wanted to put it up as the Treehouse has his website to the side column. Let me try a few other things.

          I guess finding out which version allows the date stamp will have to come from trying various ones. There’s no way to tell before trying, right?

            • Okay, so I tried per your comment, tried entering the data in that widget several different ways but it doesn’t hyperlink it for some reason. I think I am going to try and put it a menu on top and see what happens.

              Thanks so much for your help. I’ll call on you again, prolly. soon.

                    • Okay, that’s what I did before. So, I am deleting and starting fresh.

                      Dragged Text to sidebar. It gives me option of title, should I write something or put my link there? Then there’s the body where I could put stuff and it has a button below the body asking if I want to automatically show photographs? And then Save or Visibility options after that.

                      So where does the link go?

                    • Okay, it wasn’t working with the text widget box for this version for some reason. But I added the link for Robert and Gladys to the Top Menu.

                      That’s good enough, I think. Not that I am expecting too many visitors to hear me ramble on. Surprisingly enough, I’ve had a few from Thailand, Indonesia and Columbia. Lol!

                • Ah, I do see my page link, but I can’t do the same for Diwataman or the Treehouse blogs. The widget does not work with links for some reason.

                  Anyway, I did fix the time stamp issue by selecting the Ideation theme. No images, or font color changes, but it allows the Menu on top, summarizing of the articles so all the days appear on the home page and most importantly the time stamp.

                  Thanks for all your help, D-Man.

                  For a moment, I thought the Acquittal was going to happen on Friday. I think O’Mara went too far with how the Judge is favoring the State on what evidence she allowed. He could’ve shown George’s innocence and let that stand. Women get right pissed when dissed and told they are being unfair. Sometimes he gets too high brow with her, and it works against poor George.

    • Actually that was a bit arrogant wasn’t it? You didn’t simply get it started, my God, you and Sundance made all of it happen.

      Looking back at things, the truth would not have made it without you. Thank you

  11. It’s really interesting listening to the Crump interview where he gets “Rachel” to say “Trayvon run for it” (not verbatim) but the ABC audio tape ends with the same thing (you can hear another lady in the background at the same time) and it shows no rehearsing.

    So much that can be exposed. I just hope it all comes back to haunt them all.

    • What I do not get, though, is how the ABC news clip that shows 2 pieces of the audio from Crump shows an audio clip that sounds like another person while the 2nd clip sounds like Rachel. I wonder if they interviewed both because nothing makes sense and I have a tin foil hat collecting dust. Oy vey. How you did all you did without going crazy, all the evidence you collected/etc, it’s outstanding. A serious congrats because just thinking about this pair of interviews from Crump and the State is enough to make me batty.

      Anyway, ty for this great resources and helping clear a man who isn’t the drooling race monster people thought he was.

  12. DWM,
    Is it appropriate for me to ask fpoe “what were the circumstances?”

    I don’t know how these situations are treated or what’s appropriate.

  13. OK, fpoe, you wanna tell us a story?

    If you think your credibility could be vetted, you should contact an author working on a book, or Jack Cahill. There are probably legal ways for a publishing house to keep a source confidential but the vetting information on file for legal purposes. Not sure though.

  14. Pingback: WHO IS THE REAL RICK MADIGAN? | Railroading of an American Hero

  15. Pingback: Update: Who is the real Rick Madigan? | Railroading of an American Hero

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